95. The Science of the Human–Animal Bond

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Speaker 1 (00:00):

Pets, add Life, your guide to the latest in Pet Trends products and the joy of the Human Animal Bond with Kristen Levine and Chris Bonafide, powered by the American Pet Products Association and Dog tv.

Speaker 2 (00:14):

Hello one and all and welcome to another episode of Pets Add Life. I am one half of the two headed dragon that drives this pirate ship through the ocean of your sound waves. Chris Bonafide. And joining me is my first Matei, Kristen Levine.

Speaker 3 (00:34):

Hi. That's right.

Speaker 2 (00:36):

It's Pirate. Oh, it's Pirate Day here on The Pets A Life podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:41):

The Pirates have nothing to do with the Christmas season. Let's be elves. Let's be Christmas elves.

Speaker 2 (00:46):

Yeah. I don't know what a Christmas self sounds like. I'm not going to experiment with that alive on the air because I know Well,

Speaker 3 (00:54):

You've never watched Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer. Was it a Herbie that I don't want to be El.

Speaker 2 (00:59):

I'm a huge fan of Yukon Cornelius.

Speaker 3 (01:01):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02):

Little fun fact. I loved Yukon Cornelius so, so much as a child that all of my stuffies were named like Yukon or Cornelius. No way. Weird character to latch onto, especially for a Batman kid. But hey,

Speaker 3 (01:22):

But hey,

Speaker 2 (01:23):

I'm Team Yukon all the way. I don't even really remember his role in the movie too much. I guess what?

Speaker 3 (01:27):

Wasn't he one of the toys on the island of misfit toys?

Speaker 2 (01:31):

Yeah, he was like a little Nomi guy guy. I dunno.

Speaker 3 (01:35):

I remember him. I remember him.

Speaker 2 (01:37):

All of you Yukon heads, get in the chat and remind us of his role in the root of the Red Nose reindeer movie. Oh gosh,

Speaker 3 (01:44):

We just lost half the audience.

Speaker 2 (01:46):

Yeah, no, there's a lot of controversial figure. You got Cornelius controversial figure to bring up on a pet podcast, but we're going to bring

Speaker 3 (01:58):

Up, this is a pet podcast. You're not in the wrong place.

Speaker 2 (02:01):

We are going to focus today. We are going to focus on our podcast. Where? What do we do, Kristen? What do we do on this podcast? I forgot. We

Speaker 3 (02:08):

Talk about pets. We do two stories. We have two guests, we have two products, and we take two questions from the audience and it's all about pets.

Speaker 2 (02:18):

That's the only thing we're going to talk

Speaker 3 (02:20):

About. It's nothing to do with Yukon Cornelius.

Speaker 2 (02:22):

This is not a Yukon Cornelius podcast. It's not even a Christmas movie podcast, but we're approaching that Christmas season. We're close. Kristen, you got all your shopping done.

Speaker 3 (02:32):

Nine days. I think we're nine days away. Heck no. I don't have all my shopping done. I'm just trudging through. I've got Hanukkah because my husband's Jewish, so I've got Hanukkah this weekend we're celebrating. So I'm done with that shopping, but now I've got to finish the Christmas shopping.

Speaker 2 (02:50):

Yeah, the double whammy. Do you do eight gifts for each night?

Speaker 3 (02:55):

No, we just do one gift for

Speaker 2 (02:57):

Each

Speaker 3 (02:58):

Person. But the kids get eight gifts.

Speaker 2 (03:01):

Yeah, you gave them a little from their parents. Yeah, little from their parents. Yeah, a little something something too. You don't have to be extreme. That's nice though. I've never been to a Hanukkah celebration.

Speaker 3 (03:10):

Oh, it's a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (03:12):

I know. I know. I've been to Yom Kippur and I've been to Passover. I'm not uncultured. I'm not swine. Okay. I guess I've never been invited to Hanukkah. So to all of our wonderful Jewish listeners out there, if you're in the New York metro area, you got a seat at the table. You want a guy who's

Speaker 1 (03:32):

Just

Speaker 2 (03:34):

Insane, just a crazy guy at Hanukkah dinner, drop us, drop me a line. I'll be there. I'll show up with wine and two pet related stories.

Speaker 3 (03:47):

Okay, speaking of that, let's jump into stories before we get any further off track here,

Speaker 1 (03:55):

Kristen and Chris, present story time. Okay, Kristen.

Speaker 2 (04:00):

It is story time. Awesome. It is story time, and I've got a story here, and I didn't follow my advice from a previous week where I talked about getting around the paywalls. So now I've got the big paywall in front of my article. But luckily I remember this article because it is near and dear to my heart. And it was a little study produced about animal allergies and with my terrible, terrible allergies, which is the curse I bear for loving animals too much. We've been thinking a lot about our five month old son and will he be allergic to animals? And I was doing some research and I found this article about it that their conclusion was that dogs but not cats can help kids grow immunity to basically dander allergens. This was a very interesting study that placed kids and studied their reactions to allergies in both dog, dog and cat, cat and no animal households.

(05:17):

And they found that being around the dogs did help build up immunity, both dog and cat allergies, but the cats were not as helpful. And the reason for that is it's actually two different proteins that we are allergic to the dog and the cat protein. That's why you always say like, oh, it's not the fur that gets you, it's the dander. Because in the dander are the dead skin cells. And in those dead skin cells you have those proteins. And for whatever reason, reasons beyond my understanding and reasons that this article on us news didn't really get into because it's probably just too crunchy and scientific. That dog protein, the way it bonds with our body creates immunity. The cat protein doesn't necessarily do that. So this was heartbreaking news for me and also explains a lot because my parents didn't get a dog until I was well and grown. I was 19 years old, but we always had cats, always. There was always a cat in our house. And I am a sneezy around all animals nowadays. I used to think it was only cats, but I recently visited my parents who now only have the dog, and I was sneezing the entire time. It's sneeze and season. So if you are considering referencing back to Kristen's article and story from last week, few are considering a pet for Christmas, also consider the potential benefits of having a dog around a young one. All those wonderful health benefits.

Speaker 3 (06:46):

So true. I love that. Yeah, I knew that about dogs, but I didn't realize it did not apply to cats as well.

Speaker 2 (06:52):

Yeah, there's really no good advice out there. It's very funny. When you look for dog stuff, it's all very scientific. The advice is very pinpoint. And then the cat advice is always just wing it. Just try.

Speaker 3 (07:08):

Okay, well, so my story this week is about veterinarians and I pulled it from a trade magazine, so I don't usually talk about trade stories because they really only apply to people in the industry. But I thought this was interesting. A new study asked thousands of pet parents what they really wanted from their veterinarians, and here are some of the things that they said that they wanted. And this, by the way, this is not, I am not sharing this feedback to paint a negative picture on veterinarians at all. It's just that we are in a period of a lot of change with our veterinary industry. Back in the day when I was young, you had a family vet that you went to and that family vet cared for your pet throughout their entire lifetime. And then nowadays when we go to the vet, we see whichever veterinarian is available that day because they're so busy and there's a shortage of veterinarians.

(08:05):

So it's really put a lot of stress on veterinary practices and therefore things are changing for pet parents. But anyway, pet parents said that they want to be heard more than anything they said they want their vet to listen closely and understand their concerns, whether it's a weird symptom, a question about food or gut feeling that something's off. They say that feeling heard really matters. Again, this is not to suggest that vets aren't listening, but they're just like in human medicine. They may have 30 patients to see in one day and they've got 10 minutes to spend with you, but that's what people really want and what's going to drive some of the changes in the vet world. Also, they said, we want to work with our veterinarians. Today's pet parents don't want to be told what to do. They want to be part of the decision.

(08:56):

And that means working together with your vet on things like treatment options, costs, and what's best for your pets lifestyle and family. And I just want to share a story about a good friend of mine. This just happened two weeks ago where she took her dog in for his regular exam. He's five years old. He got a great checkup, but the veterinarian at his time, he really should have his teeth cleaned. She did examine his mouth and she said, it looks good, but we really should do the teeth cleaning. So a couple weeks later, she took the dog in to get their teeth cleaned. And in the middle of the procedure, the vet called to say, we need to extract 14 teeth.

Speaker 4 (09:35):

Are you

Speaker 3 (09:35):

Okay with that? Not one, not four 14. So my friend panics and calls me, which, what am I going to do? I

Speaker 2 (09:44):

I've got an opinion on that,

Speaker 3 (09:45):

Right? So I just told her, I said, if you're not comfortable with that, then just don't do it and then go back and talk to your veterinarian about it. So again, I think that was a situation where more communication would've been better ahead of time. And then the last thing that was found that people, and this is no surprise, but we all want the best for our pets. It's a no brainer. Pet parents care deeply and want their pets to live long, happy, healthy lives. They're more proactive than ever. They're scheduling wellness visits, asking about nutrition and behavior, and even exploring things like pet insurance and advanced diagnostics. So I think this survey along with a lot of other data and information is going to drive the future of veterinary medicine. And the good news is it's all going to work out. It's all going to work out for the best for our pets because that's what we want as pet parents. And that's what veterinarians want because that's why they go into the field because they love animals.

Speaker 2 (10:45):

Absolutely. And we're going to have a lot of really awesome vet related content coming up because VM X is in what, a month? Not even.

Speaker 3 (10:54):

Yeah, exactly A month actually.

Speaker 2 (10:57):

So I'm sure we're going to be hearing from a lot of awesome veterinarians and get their thoughts on those kinds of things as well.

Speaker 3 (11:05):

I'd like to hear what vets want from pet parents. I think that would be interesting.

Speaker 2 (11:08):

Money.

Speaker 3 (11:10):

No, that's not what, no,

Speaker 2 (11:14):

It's a cash grab. This whole vet thing. Cash grab. No, this is an interesting question though, because I have that millennial anxiety where I want to be the best customer, the best patient. I just want to be helpful. So I think that would be a good question to ask some of these events down in Orlando

Speaker 1 (11:36):

Beyond the leash, exploring the untold stories of pet passion and

Speaker 2 (11:39):

Professionalism. And joining us now it is my honor to introduce Dr. Patricia McConnell, a globally recognized animal behaviorist, zoologist and certified applied animal behaviorist whose career spans more than 30 years of consulting with dog and cat owners leading seminars across the world and writing bestselling books about the human animal bond. She earned her PhD in zoology and taught the biology and philosophy of human animal relationships at UW Madison for 25 years. I really feel like we found a pretty good expert on the human animal bond here. People, we like to think so for our pets ad life audience. Dr. McConnell brings a powerful blend of science and soul, how our behaviors shape our pet's lives, how we interpret what they're really trying to tell us, and how we can deepen the bond beyond simple commands to real emotional connection. Dr. McConnell, thank you so much for joining us today.

Speaker 4 (12:43):

Thank you for having me, Chris. It's my pleasure.

Speaker 2 (12:46):

So our first question we've asked our guests today, just how you personally define the human animal bond because it is such an intangible thing. It's such a concept that I think everybody understands with their heart but not with their head. So how do you define the human animal bond?

Speaker 4 (13:07):

I love that you're asking this question. Nobody's ever asked me that question before and it's a really good one. Oh man. I think the best answer from my perspective is it's at least a friendship, if not a family connection. It's not ownership, it's not an object, it's not the bond is about us being at the very least, really, really good friends with just these members of another species, which is sort of a biological miracle really. It it's really cool.

Speaker 2 (13:46):

It really is. And you've had quite a long career. Have you noticed that that definition has changed over time? Maybe not for you necessarily, but people's acceptance that the idea that a pet is part of the family, was that the case 25, 30 years ago or has that become more of a thing

Speaker 4 (14:09):

Has changed. It's changed tremendously and so much for the better, just the word pet now. People are talking more about companion animals, which I think is far more appropriate. Pet actually was a disparaging word for a spoiled kid, a demeaning word. But I think things have changed so much. When I first started in the Dark Ages, it was all about dominance and prong collars, lots of physical punishment and yelling at little puppies. And it's so much changed into us thinking of our companion animals as sentient animals who share a tremendous amount of their emotional lives with us, who need agency, who need to be respected and understood as best we can. Yeah. Oh, it's good. It's just so good changes in the last 25 years.

Speaker 2 (15:05):

And you mentioned understanding your pets, but sometimes our pets struggle to understand us. And in your book, the other side of the leash, you talk a little bit about how human behavior can often create miscommunications with the pets. So what are some of the most common pit traps that pet owners may fall into? Signals that people give their pets that lead to this miscommunication.

Speaker 4 (15:33):

And it's really easy because they are canines and we are primates. And so I think one of the most common ones is, first of all, we tend to pay as humans so much attention to verbal signals. We say sit, but usually when we're training a dog to sit, we're moving our body in a predictable way and to dogs, they're watching our bodies. So probably the biggest miscommunication is we are talking to them and they're watching us.

Speaker 2 (16:06):

Yes, exactly. I mean, a lot of people like to think that their animal speaks English, but they really don't. At the end of the day, they understand your tone and your body language more than anything else. They can't understand words. And I try to explain that to people and they're like, no, my dog knows Sit.

Speaker 4 (16:27):

It

Speaker 2 (16:28):

Knows the sound of sit. It knows what it expects of you, and it expects a little bit of a reward, but it's still a pet. You can't treat it like a person. There's a different kind of communication you need to establish. So what are some tips for parents who are trying to create a really strong bond with their pet so that they can feel like they're communicating at a level that maybe you and I are right now?

Speaker 4 (16:55):

Yeah, great question. So I'm sort of going back to visual again because

(17:01):

If you get a bunch of trainers and animal behaviors together and give them a couple of glasses of wine, and you don't have to do that. You just ask them what is the one thing you wish people knew that they don't? And everyone I know anyway says the same thing, to learn to read a dog's visual signals because they are communicating with us all the time, all the time. But it is, I mean, I've learned for 30 years that, I mean every professional I know has the same experiences. People who love dogs and adore dogs, if they don't have any training in learning how to observe a dog, sometimes subtle, sometimes really obvious signals, they don't have any training in that and they haven't learned to observe. They're missing 90% of what their dog is trying to tell them.

Speaker 2 (17:50):

What are some of those signals that are common, maybe not necessarily universal, but common that let's just say dogs use to try and express themselves to their pet owner?

Speaker 4 (18:03):

Yeah, sure. And here's a universal one actually. It is universal. So it's a one thing people could learn to look for is how loose or rigid a dog's body is.

(18:16):

So people will say, well, his tail was wagging right before he bit me, but his whole body was just rigid and immobile and maybe his mouth was closed and his commer was forward, and just the tip of the tail was going right. You want to look for a body wag that starts in the shoulders. I'm really glad to see you. So I can give you one thing that's a huge one, which is again, is the body loose and relaxed or is the body rigid and immobile and is the dog sort of mouth closed and not breathing? I've prevented so many bites when clients would come into my office and say, no, no, no. Say hi to him. He would love it. And the dog is like, we can make friends, but I'm not going to run up and pet him on his head right away.

Speaker 2 (19:10):

Right. Well, I want to take some time to pivot towards some of the books you've written, and I think you're such an interesting case here, Dr. McConnell, because you have such a scientific background, but you have a very clear and apparent skill to communicate these concepts in a way that someone as dumb as I can understand. So how do you balance this idea of I want rigorous science that's backed by all of these studies and all this research, but then compassionate storytelling that makes it interesting for a lay person to read.

Speaker 4 (19:54):

Oh boy, how long do we have? This is a big question. Wonderful question. So the science part is every scientist I know is into science because they are curious. Science is not about being right, it's about being curious and discovering things. And so that's been a huge part of my life. But I have to say as time has gone on and my teeth have gotten longer like workhorse, I'm more and more into the storytelling. I mentioned you earlier, I branched out, I have a mystery novel coming up in February of next year. It's called A Way to Me, it's about an animal behaviorist Write what?

(20:39):

And it's a story. And it's just a story. Oh, thank you. It's just a story. But inside that story, I really do hope that people do learn a lot. It's not a training book, but there's a lot in there about how dogs think as best we know and how dogs behave and why so much. Aggression is really based on fear. So my hope is that people will learn a lot about dogs that they can also share being traumatized with humans. Dogs can be traumatized. They have very similar emotional systems. So my books are always sort of about humans and dogs, what's same, what's different? Everyone of my books, and this one is sort of similar, similar, but it has a lot of drama and it's a story.

Speaker 2 (21:30):

Well, I think your case is really interesting. I read a lot of nerd books like a lot of sci-fi for example. And in those cases I've learned a lot about space and astronomy from them. But those authors were writers first and they had to sort of talk to astronomers to get the book. You already know all of this stuff and you're forming these stories. It's like a first person source. I mean, I think that's so wonderful because you're going to be entertained, obviously you're going to be reading this book, you're going to be getting an incredible story, but there's going to be these little nuggets that are very real and very true. And I think that's an amazing opportunity for animal lovers to kind of get the best of both worlds. So I really commend you for taking this route because obviously a lot about this stuff and it can inform some amazing

Speaker 4 (22:25):

Stories. Thank you. And I do, but you know what? I don't know about, I'm happy to say murder

Speaker 2 (22:34):

You. The dogs are fine. These books, people, the dogs are fine. Spoiler alert, the dogs are okay. Alert.

Speaker 4 (22:41):

No dog dies in the making of

Speaker 2 (22:42):

This. No dog dies in those books.

Speaker 4 (22:44):

No, I'm not that stupid. I would never do that to anybody, including myself. So there's some drama, but no dog dies.

Speaker 2 (22:51):

Well, Dr. McConnell, we're at the end of our interview here, but where can our listeners go to find your books, learn more about your career and keep up with everything happening in your life?

Speaker 4 (23:07):

And why didn't I at the very beginning say, oh my goodness, just call me Tricia.

Speaker 2 (23:12):

I should have done, I'm so sorry. Then I'd be calling you Dr. Tricia, because I don't leave. When you go to school for that long, you earned it.

Speaker 4 (23:19):

That is just silly. That's just silly. So people can go. Thank you for asking. People can go to just go to my name Patricia McConnell com, and there's books are available there. I have a learning center with tons of advice and videos. It's all, all free. I have a blog, the other end of the leash, so patricia mcconnell.com.

Speaker 2 (23:39):

Well, I encourage everybody to check out those amazing resources if you're trying to strengthen your bond with your pet. But for now, we're going to say goodbye to Dr. Tricia. Thank you so much for taking some time out of your day to join us.

Speaker 4 (23:52):

Thank you. It was my pleasure.

Speaker 2 (23:57):

Always a pleasure to speak with one of the legends of the pet industry and specifically the human animal bond. We're going to keep it rolling with this awesome human animal bond episode. That advice from Dr. McConnell invaluable. I hope you are listening. Those ears perked up, taking notes, some really good stuff in there. Joining us now is Lindsey Braun, the Vice President of research and operations at Hari. We've had a few guests from Hari on the show. I hope you all remember. It's the nonprofit organization dedicated to advancing scientific understanding of the human animal bond and how companion animals contribute to human health and wellbeing. In her role, Lindsay oversees hari's global research grant portfolio partnerships with universities and institutions and efforts to translate rigorous animal human interaction science into accessible programs and policy insights. Her recent work includes co-authoring the paper, the new status quo, enhancing access to human animal interactions to alleviate social isolation and loneliness. In the time of COVID-19, that is a hell of a title, which explores how pets and human animal interaction played a role in public health and community resilience with Lindsay. On the show, we'll dive into the science of why pets matter, how research is shaping our understanding of the bond and what pet parents can take away for everyday life. Lindsey, thank you so much for hopping on, taking some time out of your busy schedule to join us.

Speaker 5 (25:33):

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (25:35):

So my first question is, are all scientific paper titles that long? I see 'em all the time, and there's so many words

Speaker 5 (25:44):

Sometimes.

Speaker 2 (25:45):

Sometimes, yeah, that's fine.

Speaker 5 (25:47):

We try and help kind of distill things a little bit. We'll probably talk about that a little bit.

Speaker 2 (25:51):

And speaking of distilling things, the human animal bond, I think everybody has their definition of what that means, but what's your definition, especially when you're looking at defining it through science?

Speaker 5 (26:06):

Yeah, I think just so we're all on the same page, the formal definition or the paraphrasing of it is it's this mutually beneficial relationship that positively benefits health and wellbeing at both ends of the pet owner pet relationship. But yeah, I'd say it's that connection that you have with your unique connection you have with your animal. I like to instead just ask the question, what does your pet mean to you? And there's so many forms it can take. People say they're like a child to me, me or my close confidant my best friend. That's the bond in a nutshell. And while it means different things to different people, I think the key is that there's a whole host of scientific research that shows that it's beneficial to our health and wellbeing and our pets health as well. And so that's really something that I think maybe people don't think about as much, but that we try to really get across.

Speaker 2 (27:08):

Yeah, it's one of those things where it's like if you have a pet, you know it, but how do you prove it? So it's tested so immeasurable, but you guys have found a way to measure it, right?

Speaker 5 (27:21):

Yeah. We have something called the HABS score. It's a 14 statement scale. You kind of react to a series of statements based on the four distinct dimensions of the bond, attachment, humanization integration and commitment. And you agree or disagree with those statements on a scale of one to five. And so the lowest score you could possibly get is a 14, and the highest is a 75 times 14. My math not great at math. Somebody out there will do the math for you. Don't worry about that seriously. But one way you can kind of better understand your own bond is by taking the Hab score. It just really gets at sort of how you see your relationship with your pet.

Speaker 2 (28:12):

Yeah, that's great. And I talked about it in the intro. You had a publication that sort of highlighted how COVID changed. I mean, it changed everything. Everything was very different, but it specifically changed our access to human animal interaction. I mean, a lot of people were spending a lot of time at home with their pets. So what were some of the surprising findings from that research about pets, people and their mutual resilience?

Speaker 5 (28:46):

Yeah, it so hard to believe the pandemic was five years ago now, but obviously it has such lasting impacts and people went through such profound trauma and social loss that I think what was really what's resonated ever since is that pets were sort of this bright spot in this really terrible moment for so many people when we were all of a sudden isolated living in these quarantines and not being able to be, have that human connection as much. And so pets kind of filled that void a little bit, helped us cope, helped us get through. They demand a routine, they wake you up to go on that walk or to get fed. So they really kind of helped people through those difficult times. And while maybe they certainly weren't the full solution, there's no real replacement to human connection. And when people experience such such loss, it's really hard to overcome that.

(29:43):

But I think what everyone recognized and what just changed everything was just that the bond was so important and that people were spending more time than ever with their pets, like you said, and they never wanted to go back. And I think that's really shown today that the bond is stronger than ever before. We've done recent surveys asking pet owners going through the scale that we have, and I think we recently saw in our chewy survey, the average was 60, and that's the highest it's ever been. So I think really ever since the pandemic sort of catapulted all of that. And so it was sort of just this moment in time where we've just seen this increase in how people perceive the bond and see it as just this important aspect of their life and that they want to make those sacrifices and those changes to have better access to their pets in their everyday life.

Speaker 2 (30:38):

And speaking of getting at the why and the linkage, let's say five years from now or further, all this research has come back. You have all of these wonderful findings. How does that translate over into the average pet parents' life? What is the result of this research in the grand scheme of things and how is it going to help us connect with our pets?

Speaker 5 (31:04):

Yeah, I think on a very practical, we have a whole host of research that's just on an individual level by simply spending more time with your pet. There are so many going through life with your pet, there's so many benefits. And so acknowledging that or understanding that simply can really be beneficial. We have research to show that having a pet dog in the family or involving a child in that care and routine can increase empathy, can help their development. Just knowing that just can register and help pet owners better connect with their pets, but also with their families on an individual level. Even talking to your doctor about your pet can reveal relevant information to that doctor that helps them recommend things better or build your relationship and allows 'em to be more effective. They know more about your lifestyle, for example. So there's so many little things that the science can really underscore to help regular people just recognize the bond and how important it is and how important talking about it is.

(32:11):

So we always say, just talk to people about it. You can totally connect better. And then also just have more ways to have your care be more effective for you and for your pet. And I think practically speaking, we also say a way to strengthen your bond not only is understanding it, so you could take the hob score scale and understand where you're at and then maybe be motivated to find more ways to strengthen it. But also taking better care of your own pet is a great way to strengthen the bond and a practical way to do that. And we know that a healthy pet is so essential to a strong bond. So

Speaker 2 (32:47):

Making

Speaker 5 (32:48):

Sure they've received the preventative care that's necessary to avoid any sort of emergency situation or just even better understanding their behavior, doing training together. For example, your dog can really help you understand their behaviors and feel like you're more connected

Speaker 2 (33:03):

And you don't want a misbehaving or unhealthy pet. It's going to stress you out. The idea is the pet. The pet should be a positive. And if they're well taken care of and well-trained and attended to, you're going to feel a lot better in your home and a lot more comfortable. I mean, there was a big difference for me when my cat was normal age versus when she was 22. Every single time she coughed or walked up the stairs. Weird. You get worried and you don't want to be worried all the time. So I think that's a great point in relating animal health back to the overall bond, I think is a really important, it's a mutual part of the experience. And we are coming up on time here, Lindsey, but I want to give you a chance to let our wonderful viewers out there know where they can learn more about Hari support the cause or find some of this research if they have a curious mind themselves.

Speaker 5 (34:06):

Oh, thanks for asking. Yeah, anyone can go to hari.org. It's our website. We are really good at, like we've mentioned before, distilling the science into more palatable ways. We try to tread that fine line between being true to it, but also sharing it in a way that's more digestible. We have infographic session, all sorts of webinars, all sorts of content on our social media. We're active on Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn, wherever you go. So yeah, I'd encourage you to check our website out and be the best place to start and go from there. But appreciate the ask. And we're working to support all sorts of policies that try to make society more pet friendly. That's really our goal by taking that research and translating it so there's so much to learn and so much to get involved in by just visiting our sites is a great way to start.

Speaker 2 (35:02):

Absolutely. Lindsay, thank you so much for taking some time today and walking us through all these wonderful initiatives. Folks, hug your little furry creature a little or scaly, who knows. But if it's a fish, probably don't try to hug it a little closer and really appreciate that bond. Lindsay, thanks again.

Speaker 5 (35:22):

Thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 2 (35:26):

Well, I think it'd be really fun if you all went on to the Hari website and got your Hab score and went ahead and posted it in the comments. Let's see if anybody can get, they were saying that the average moved up to 60 in that COVID study. So let's see who could hop in them comments with their score and get over a 60. And maybe next episode, I'll blow you a little kiss or something. Who knows the product of the week. It's time for the product of the week, man. There's madness happening behind the scenes. Absolute, absolute madness. And speaking of madness, speaking of madness, are you in a mad rush to finish your Christmas shopping? Did you forget about your little kitty cat? Well, what we always did for the cats was stockings because the cat's presence under the tree was all the wrapping paper. They got to play with all the wrapping paper and bows. They loved that best day of their lives, and we'd always do a stocking for them. But stuffing a stocking can be exhausting. You need to get so much stuff in there. Well,

(36:42):

Guess what? PetSmart is selling a pre stuffed stocking. I think this is such a cute little, little gift. It is a little see-through stocking filled with some Christmas cat toys. I think there's 24 assorted toys all in beautiful Christmas colors. There's crinkles and rattles and little fishies and little Santa little mice, and it's only going to run you back 17 bucks. So if you're in a crunch and you want to get something for your cats, you want 'em to feel like they're part of the family, get 'em a little stocking, hang it up next to everybody and just pour all that stuff over them Christmas morning and watch 'em go haywire. That would be,

Speaker 3 (37:31):

That's like a jackpot gift.

Speaker 2 (37:33):

Yes. 20 gift inside. That's cool. Your cat doesn't want a lot. Your cat wants a slice of the Turkey or the ham, maybe not the ham. It's a little salty, but all that kind of good stuff. And kiss some toys, make 'em feel included.

Speaker 3 (37:51):

Funny enough, my product of the week is also for kitty cats.

Speaker 2 (37:55):

Oh, yay.

Speaker 3 (37:56):

Yeah, and I saw this and I thought it was the greatest idea ever. Maybe you've seen it, Chris. It's a cat. It's a holiday cat tunnel that you put under the Christmas tree.

Speaker 2 (38:07):

Yes, I have seen those.

Speaker 3 (38:09):

That is so smart

Speaker 2 (38:10):

Because

Speaker 3 (38:11):

One of the biggest problems that we have when we put the Christmas tree up is if you have a cat, is that they want to get into the tree. It's like a magnet. And it's so intriguing to them. And this is a play tunnel that you put around the bottom of the tree where the tree skirt would go. And it's beautiful. It's decorated, so it comes in different colors. So it's very festive and it gives your cat a safe place to play under the tree. And some of them have little dangly things and things that would appeal to cats or sort of like the ornaments on the tree, but safe. So yeah, it appeals to their natural instincts. They can ambush each other if there's more than one cat, because there's multiple entry points in this particular tunnel that I found. It's lightweight, collapsible, easy to stash away after the holidays. So I just thought that was a really smart thing. I've never seen it before. I don't know if it's new, but it's a really brilliant solution both to keep cats focused under the tree in something that's intended for them as opposed to making a mess of your tree and getting into trouble.

Speaker 2 (39:22):

Yeah, I think that's great. I've seen them before and never purchased them, but man, these cats in the Christmas trees, a little bittersweet note with tiger passing. This is the first year we're decorating the bottom quarter of our tree because normally they see the ornaments and they're like, yeah, I want that.

(39:44):

So I think this is a great alternate solution if it keeps 'em entertained and out of that dang tree q and as. Alright, folks, it is time for our favorite part of the show. We as the two-headed dragon, I think that was what I said at the top of the show. Can't remember timelines, blurring together are your go-to sources for all your pet related questions. And we got a whole slew of them coming in for the holiday season. So we're going to go ahead and answer two of those. And I know what you're thinking. How do I have my question answered by Chris and Kristen? Well, couldn't be simpler. You're getting hot in over two pets at life.org/podcast. You'll see a form at the bottom of that page, or if you're feeling as brave as the editors of these episodes dealing with whatever the hell is coming out of my mouth, you can record a voice memo, make our editor's life an even bigger nightmare. And we'll play your question live on this show. How's that? There we go. Okay, we have questions. We do. And we're going right back to your ht, your hometown here, Kristen, because I another one. Yeah. I have a question from Noah in Tampa, Tampa Bay. They love us down in Tampa Bay.

Speaker 4 (41:06):

Obviously

Speaker 2 (41:06):

They do. And Noah's got a question here. I keep tropical fish and find them calming to watch. I mean, who doesn't? Do fish recognize their owners or respond to human interaction in any meaningful way? Or are we just projecting our feelings onto them deep? That is a deep question.

Speaker 3 (41:26):

Yeah. Thank you, Noah. Thanks for the question. And I have to be honest, my experience with aquatics is very limited. I had a goldfish named Sammy when I was a child, and that was the end of my aquatics experience. So I did some research and this is what I found out. And I was very surprised that some fish do indeed recognize their owners and respond to human interaction in real measurable ways. It's just not wishful thinking. It's not us.

Speaker 2 (41:59):

Is it fish full thinking?

Speaker 3 (42:01):

It's fish full thinking. Oh my gosh, you're so good.

Speaker 2 (42:04):

Oh man, I'm taking the rest of the day off.

Speaker 3 (42:07):

Okay, bye now. Okay. Studies show fish like goldfish, this other fish, I don't even know the, it's spelled C-I-C-H-L-I-D-S, Chi lids, chi lids, chi lids. It's cute. And archer fish, they can recognize human faces and remember patterns. Even distinguishing between people.

Speaker 2 (42:30):

It's

Speaker 3 (42:30):

Pretty cool. So their brains are wired for survival and knowing who feeds them gives them an edge. And then finally, regarding the recognition through sight and routine, tropical fish often learn to associate movement near the tank, especially your face or your hand with feeding or attention. And if they swim to the front, follow your fingers or even seem to beg, it's because they've learned that you equal food. So yeah, and you're right, Noah. Watching fish lowers stress and anxiety in people. So really it's a great thing to have. It's a lot of doctor's offices have fish tanks, so you can be relaxing before a stressful appointment. But yeah, that's what I found out.

Speaker 2 (43:15):

It's

Speaker 3 (43:16):

Pretty

Speaker 2 (43:16):

Interesting. And speaking of watching fish, I saw Instagram reel of somebody with a fish tank and they were watching King Kong and all the fish were at the front of the tank watching the movie.

Speaker 3 (43:27):

No way.

Speaker 2 (43:28):

Yeah, it was so funny. I was like, man, they love the big monkey. So yeah, the fish are a little smarter than we would think. Makes me feel bad about my dinner last night. But hey, whatcha going to do? Whatcha going to do? Whatcha going to do? No ethical consumption? I'll

Speaker 3 (43:47):

Tell you what you're going to do. You're going to answer this question from Eli in Boston. Okay, so Eli asks, people always say that having pets is good for your health, but is there real science behind that? Does raising a pet actually make us healthier or happier in measurable ways?

Speaker 2 (44:04):

Great question for me to answer. A real scientist to answer your question about real science. All joking aside, if you want real science, head on over to hari.org, HABR i.org, and you can see all of this amazing research they've done to try and prove this scientifically

(44:26):

Because it is a feeling that pet owners get, but it is so difficult to measure. So if you want the real science head on over to Hari's website, but I'll tell you what I know, which is limited for I know nothing. The one thing I know for sure that science has proven is that spending time with a pet releases oxytocin, which is like the feel good. They call it the cuddle chemical. It is a hormone that our body produces when we feel loved and safe and comfortable. And in today's isolated society, we don't get enough of that good stuff. We just simply do not get enough of that good stuff. Oxytocin is almost a direct competitor or rival to the stress hormone, which I cortisol, which when you feel stressed, you're ripping your hair out, your body's pumping cortisol and cortisol raises your blood pressure.

(45:35):

It's bad for your overall cardiovascular health and it makes you feel terrible. The opposite is this cuddle chemical which makes you feel good and safe and warm, and having a pet around helps with that tremendously. It's been proven in study after study after study. So if you're looking for one tangible, real benefit outside of the dog walks or the increased immune system or the resistance to allergies for your children that I talked about at the top of the show, that is something that has been measured and has been proven. So if anybody's in your life is being a hater and saying there's no science, you could tell 'em, well, this podcast says you're wrong. There we go, this pal podcast and this haircut guy in his stupid waffle shirt says, you're wrong.

Speaker 1 (46:29):

What?

Speaker 2 (46:30):

You made it to the end of the episode. If you're here with us now, you're part of the dedicated few. Because I feel like nobody makes it to the, they get to of the questions and they know what we're going to say. They know we're going to plug our socials at Pet Satellite. They know we're going to do that. They know we're going to entice them to watch this on a video platform such as YouTube or dog TV that's running a wonderful promotion through the end of the year. They know that we're going to say, we're taking no weeks off. They could see that in my eyes. They don't even need to make it to the end of the episode. They tune in and they see the look on my eyes and they say, Chris needs to.

Speaker 3 (47:06):

So maybe, are you saying the people who are listening to this part of the show, they're the newcomers, right?

Speaker 2 (47:11):

Yeah. They haven't heard it yet edit yet. They don't edit. They don't edit yet. Just don't. If you're listening to this right now, you don't get it, man. You don't get it. But thank you for joining us all the way through. We're going to be back in a week and it'll be Christmas time. It'll be almost Christmas, Christmas Eve. No, not even close to Christmas Eve.

Speaker 3 (47:36):

Couple days before.

Speaker 2 (47:38):

It'll be a few days before Christmas and we'll be here.

Speaker 3 (47:41):

Yeah, we will. And remember, tell the kids not to eat the yellow snow

Speaker 1 (47:46):

Pets. Add life your guide to the latest in Pet Trends products, and the joy of the human animal Bond with Kristen Levine and Chris Bon, powered by the American Pet Products Association and Dog tv.