83. Nature, TV & Tail‑Wagging Wellness

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Speaker 1 (00:00):

Pets Ad Life, your guide to the latest in Pet Trends products, and the joy of the Human Animal Bond with Kristen Levine and Chris Bonti, powered by the American Pet Products Association and Dog tv.

Speaker 2 (00:17):

Hey, pet lover. This is the Pets Ad Life podcast, and he, we are here with another possum show for you today. I'm Kristen Levine, one of your hosts. And as you know, if you're a regular listener, we always share two stories. We have two amazing guests. We share two product, uh, recommendations, and we wrap it up with two questions that we answer from the audience. But I cannot do this alone. So today, I'm so excited to introduce my guest co-host to you today. It's Dr. Ross Henderson. Welcome, Dr. Ross.

Speaker 3 (00:50):

Thank you so much for having me. It's always a pleasure hanging out with you guys. And

Speaker 2 (00:53):

Oh my gosh,

Speaker 3 (00:54):

Sunny talk, talk about our topics today and, and meet these great guests.

Speaker 2 (00:58):

Yeah. And I, you know, you've been on the show before, so some of our, uh, listeners and viewers may remember you, but for those who are just meeting you for the first time, let me just give a little background on, uh, on your greatness <laugh>. Dr. Ross is a respected veterinarian and co-owner of Fox Hollow Animal Hospital in Lakewood, Colorado. And there he practices veterinary medicine alongside his father and his brother. Now, Dr. Ross is known as the singing bet, and that's because he is trademark guitar, serenades soothe, anxious pets in the clinic. And, um, doc, you, you received widespread attention when you guys had your show on Animal Planet called Hang Hanging with the Hendersons. And, uh, so now you work with all types of, uh, companion animals and you continue to connect deeply with pet lovers and pets through music media and of course, your veterinary practice. So, oh, and by the way, you also have your very own show on dog TV called Bedtime Ballads.

Speaker 3 (01:57):

Yes. Which is, yeah. Which has been a blast. Uh, but that, that's pretty good. Yeah. Minus my 3-year-old twins, I think are, uh, a massive, massive chunk of my life and my wife who've been with, with almost over 13 years as well.

Speaker 2 (02:12):

Wow.

Speaker 3 (02:13):

But, uh,

Speaker 2 (02:14):

You're, you're a busy guy, busy at home and busy at work, and congratulations. I understand you just celebrated a, um, a special anniversary.

Speaker 3 (02:24):

Yeah, so, well, so my veterinary school, uh, in Edburg Scotland was 10 year reunion, so we just traveled back to Scotland, brought the whole family, and then, uh, spent some time visiting my cousin over there. But it was really, really great to see some old friends and colleagues.

Speaker 2 (02:39):

That's awesome. You know, before we jump into our story time, um, can you just share a little bit with our audience about how you integrated? How and how did it happen that you started integrating music and singing into your veterinary practice?

Speaker 3 (02:56):

Yeah, absolutely. I, I think as a, as a veterinarian integrating with, uh, family business, uh, I took liberties, uh, that maybe a normal vet wouldn't be able to if they walked into a corporate vet clinic. Maybe, maybe I'm incorrect, but, um, knowing my dad was, there was very family, family kind of oriented veterinary practice, and there was some downtime here and there, and I'm playing music and performing, so I'd bring my guitar in and the dog's barking and, and, you know, maybe whining before surgery or anything like that. And I was realizing I was playing at my desk. And then my office manager, Darcy, who's amazing, actually, she just had 20 years at our practice, which is great. Uh, but, uh, she's like, you might as well be sitting and playing for the dogs. It seems to be helping. And then, uh, then we got some fun videos, and then that's kind of what started the, the crazy viral stuff. But I think it, it was something that connected and, uh, that it's still a very fun passion of mine to be able to play. My, my guitar sits right up by my desk, so it's always within reach to be able to play. And I have a lot of clients that ask for me to play for their dogs. Aw, <laugh>, which is, uh, as much as I'm po able to, I, I like to do that.

Speaker 2 (04:13):

That's amazing. That's amazing. Well, uh, I encourage our listeners and viewers to, to check your show out bedtime ballots on dog tv. Um, but now we are gonna jump into story time.

Speaker 1 (04:26):

Kristen and Chris, present story time.

Speaker 2 (04:30):

Usually I let our guest co-host go first. So would you like to kick us off?

Speaker 3 (04:35):

Yeah, I have, I have a very, uh, very, you know, successful outcome story that I actually only had in like involvement with in the beginning, which is this beautiful little Bassett hound puppy. Um, like even my dad said that this, this puppy's ear to like length and or height ratio is extreme, so dragging more than half of its ears. And, uh, wow, she's so sweet. Um, I'll, we can call her Gracie, uh, just for her name's, rhymes with that. But anyways, <laugh>, she's adorable. Uh, anyways, so we see her for first visit. We're taking pictures and everything's amazing. And then we come back a few weeks later and we have diarrhea and it's just like classic suspicion and fear of parvo, and she's so sick and we do parvo tests and it's negative. And then we're still not eating her belly's bloated. And, um, and so we, we send her off and the, the specialist is like, Hey, this could be a, a non, like, like a, a, a strain that doesn't test positive on the classical snap test.

(05:44):

So they do these PCRs and all these things, and then they do it, uh, an ultrasound and find out, it's called intussusception. So it's where the intestine rolls over itself and kind of telescopes. Um, so, uh, the, the, the prognosis at this point was actually pretty terrible. And they're, the owners are faced with these big bills from specialists and everything, but they went ahead and went for it. And, um, and they did this really cool surgical pattern where it's almost like a railroad track to prevent that from telescoping. Um, and then this was all happening right before I left, like three and a half weeks ago. And yesterday, uh, she came in bright and bushy tailed and rolling over and playing and eating great. And I, I even told them, I'm like, I'm, I'm like tearing up right now. You don't understand. Uh, I told them if 10 dogs were in that situation, uh, eight would've gone the, the opposite way. And what a great family and a, and a this little puppy. And we were talking about how 12, 14 years, who knows down the road. Um, it's just gonna feel so good knowing that, uh, that they invested in, uh, giving this puppy a chance. So it's, it's really, really rewarding. Um,

Speaker 2 (06:58):

Oh, that's, that's a, that's wonderful. And, and I know that you, um, you experienced things like that quite often, you know, with your clients and your patients. And, uh, I watched your real talk that you did with blog pauses, uh, last year, and I love that. I love the story you shared about, is it Jake? Was it Jake that you talked Jack Jack? Yeah. So that's another, uh, thing we'll have to put in the show notes, so, so our listeners could go check that out too. So that's got a good puppy happy ending. My story today is more of a, I'm kind of reporting on a new trend that I think is super cool, <laugh>, um, I'm gonna call it sip and sniff. So I was reading this article, I can't even remember what I think it was in Bring Fido and, um, it's about how dog friendly winery tours are exploding nationwide, you know, from nap, you know, from Napa Valley, um, to Michigan wine country.

(07:52):

If in case you didn't know that was a thing, it's a thing. Um, and it's, it's been popular for a while that dogs are allowed at wineries, but now wineries are starting to cater to dogs and their dog parents. So, um, there's some wineries in California where they have trained staff that will, they'll kind of babysit or walk your dog while you're doing your tastings or your, your vineyard tour. Um, they obviously are put, you know, providing your dog with special treats and some merch <laugh>. And, uh, there's even a VW bus tour in Sonoma, um, that encourages people to bring their dogs along. So lots of really cool stuff going on in the winery world. And, um, I don't know, I just, I think that would be such a great way to kick back and relax, uh, with your dog.

Speaker 3 (08:40):

Yeah. Uh, do you have any nearby yourself where we can go, <laugh>?

Speaker 2 (08:47):

Well, now that we've, uh, shared our stories, we are going to get to, we've got some amazing guests today. I am super excited to talk to both of them

Speaker 1 (08:55):

Beyond the leash, exploring the untold stories of pet passion and professionalism.

Speaker 3 (09:03):

All right. Friends, please help me welcome Dr. Jeffrey Katz. He's a leading comparative cognition psychologist, and the Mike and Leon Rowe in endowed professor at Auburn University's Department of Psychological Psychological Sciences. Wow. Um, <laugh>, I can retry that. Hold on a second. Let me slide this over. I promise I can read doc, you know. Um, okay. Uh, please welcome Dr. Jeffrey Katz. He's the leading comparative cognition psychologist and the mike in Lean Roe endowed professor at Auburn University's Department of Psychological Sciences. He earned his PhD from Tufts University and directs Auburn's Comparative Cognition Laboratory, where he investigates canine perception, concept learning and neural mechanisms using behavioral and neuro imaging methods. Uh, Dr. Katz recently led a groundbreaking study published in Scientific Reports, revealing that 88.3% of dogs actively watch television with viewing style linked to personality traits, excitable dogs, track moving images, while more anxious dogs respond to sounds like doorbells or cars, his findings point to the potential of tailored TV content as an enrichment tool in homes and shelters as doc tv. Obviously we had to find out more. So welcome, doctor. I appreciate it.

(10:24):

Yeah. So, uh, you know, as a veterinarian and, and obviously in our training, we, we look through studies and, and, you know, studies like this. And I think I really would like to nerd and geek out, that might be another time, but for layman's terms, just for our audience, kind of the general dog owner, like, 'cause they might just say like, oh, how we just like have them watch TV and, and like, we're gathering subjective information or whatever. Could you kind of describe how a study like this, um, really works? And then how that gives us information that we can be kind of confident about that helps, helps us, yeah. From a scientific standpoint, if that Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (11:06):

So let, so I guess I'll start from the beginning. So I thought about this study, well, the way it started is I was sitting at home one day watching TV and I saw this advertisement for dog tv and I was like, oh, what's that all about? You know, and it, and you know, I think that's, you know, it's awesome. It's really cool, you know, there's a network devoted to, to dogs, right? So it got me thinking and, um, what do we really know about dogs watching tv? And this was probably about three or four years ago. And, you know, when I did my lit search, uh, we didn't really know a ton, right? It was, um, we know a lot about how dogs look at TV monitor, like monitors, computer screens, and people have done research on that, but we didn't really know, like, your dog's sitting at home watching a television, what do they extract, right?

(12:01):

So it got me, got me thinking like, well, how would you start doing this? So I had went to a lab meeting with, uh, my grad students and I was like, Hey, there's this dog TV thing, it's really cool. You know, we should, um, we should explore this as scientists, you know, what are, what, what do dogs really extract from TV and how is it different from how what we extract, you know, humans extract from tv? So I just said, Hey, let's, um, the first step is let's just survey people about this and see what we can find out. And so one of my grad students, lane Montgomery, was like, had a dog that, that watches TV on a regular basis with her. And she was like, and the dog Jack is' name tracks objects on TV and, and gets really excited with it. So she was like, yeah, I'm down for doing this.

(12:46):

So with her, we created this survey, all right, and basically then sent it out, you know, what, what are the, you know, we put questions together, sent it out, and we, you know, so there are things about dogs watching tv, but there weren't a lot of published findings for it, right? So it's like, so I was like, you know, and it's a scientist where, you know, we're all about peer review and all that. And so that was important. So we went off and did this. And so this was the first step in doing it. So what goes into the, the science part is like coming up with the questions that you wanna ask, right? And then how do you ask people that? And you know, we did, uh, Likert scales, you know, kind of standard psychological testing for humans, although I must admit that I don't do survey research.

(13:30):

This is not, you know, I'm a, I'm a bring an animal into the lab and, and do interesting behavioral tests, right? And, and work with different species over the years, but I don't do surveys, right? So it was like, for me, this was kind of a new, new kind of area to go into. And it wasn't really the end point. It was really the start of it. So let's just kind of find out and survey people what they think about their dogs, not what their dogs actually do, but what they think about their dogs. And then let's take this mo this information and move forward with it for the next phases.

Speaker 2 (14:02):

Yeah. Um, I think what, what I found so fascinating about the study is that, you know, you found that almost nine outta 10 dogs are actually watching TV and that the dog's personality traits are, are, are part of what influences what they're focusing on. Can you talk a little bit about that, how you discovered that?

Speaker 4 (14:21):

Yeah, sure. So let me unpack that nine out of ten first. So, so, so it's, um, basically we sent out the survey and anybody that owned a dog could, could fill that out, right? And so it's, you know, about dog watching tv of the people that responded about, about 88% of their, the people, their dogs watch tv. All right? So you gotta remember, it's a selection factor. And that's true of all surveys, right? So, so there are probably many people whose dog doesn't watch tv, but they weren't interested in the survey, right? So that, that 88% is probably a little inflated in terms of the percentage of dogs overall in general in the population that watch tv. All right? So I just just wanna unpack that a little bit, but to you, yeah,

Speaker 2 (15:09):

Thanks for that clarification.

Speaker 4 (15:10):

But, but to the next part of that, which I, which I think is probably the really interesting part in, in the novel aspect of this survey, is how the dog's personality interacts with how they view television programming, right? So, and what we found, and the way, so the way you measure personality is another type of survey measure, right? But it's, uh, and there's some standard scales, just like when you measure personality within humans, standardized scales that have been validated and they're reliable, and there's some for dogs. And so we used one of those and what we found, so, and when you do, you basically ask questions about your, you know, dog, is your dog energetic? Is your dog anxious? And they're different series of questions, and then you get composite scores based on those questions, right? And then you look at how those scores are related to the, the how people describe their dog watching tv. And so what we find, those scores that were to that kind of popped out. So if you have a really energetic dog, they tend to track objects on the screen more often than dogs that are not energetic, right? And then the other personality factor that was really important is that anxious dogs, right? They tend to react to, to sounds like novel, like doorbells. They react to doorbells and car horns. So they get, you know, they're really anxious and these kind of things get them going. <laugh>.

Speaker 2 (16:34):

Does

Speaker 4 (16:34):

That make sense?

Speaker 2 (16:35):

It does, it does. It's funny. My, my dog, uh, tulip, she's a miniature pincher chihuahua mix, and she's very, very protective of us. And when she sees animals on television, whether she watches dog tv, but even in regular television, when she sees other animals on television, she starts to bark <laugh>. So kind of like, she would look out the window and see a dog, it's kind of the same. So I don't, I don't know if that's an accurate extrapolation, but, um, her personality watching TV is very similar to her personality in real life,

Speaker 4 (17:06):

<laugh>. Yeah. No, I think that's great. Yeah. And you know, one of the other interesting things that came outta the survey, which also other people had shown is right, dogs prefer to look at other dogs, right? And, and other animals when they're, they're looking at tv. So pretty interesting in that aspect too.

Speaker 3 (17:23):

I, I think surveys, um, yeah, surveys have a, a significant like, uh, place and are powerful. Like we, as a veterinary, we use surveys a lot to try and quantify stuff. So I think based on how well the survey is crafted, which I can, I've got your, your, uh, study up here, um, I think this looks super solid. And, and again, having, being able to have peer reviewed, it just gives you so much more confidence to be able to publish something as opposed to somebody just putting a blog up on what they think, right? So, uh, but yeah, we use surveys for pain scoring, for quality of life assessments, for, um, I mean, their feces, like <laugh> do, they have like everything and owners can kind of do that. So I, I think that there's, there's definitely some, some very cool valid information that we can pull from that to give us, give us all of this cool data for sure.

(18:20):

Um, you know, with that, uh, do you, does this, whether this is a next step thing or not, but do you feel like this has kind of paved the way for some inter like, uh, allowing this to influence owners or shelters or just like being a, a resource where it's like, Hey, we have this, we can actually positively impact certain dogs' lives in certain scenarios. Like, uh, um, you know, especially with like us being dog tv, and this is kind of our realm, for example. How do you feel like those two fit together in some, maybe on the horizon?

Speaker 4 (18:57):

Yeah, excellent question. I, I think they fit together really well, so, you know, and so I think about myself watching tv, right? And, you know, what do we do when we go to the tv, right? Well, I don't know about you guys, but I have this guide, and I'm like, oh, what's on? And I kind of go through the channels like, oh, I like this, I like that. Now what I like and what you guys like might be very different, right? And a lot of things that, that goes into it is my personality. I like these types of shows. I like this type of show. You guys, you know, I love basketball, so I'll watch a lot of basketball. You might hate basketball. So, so that's how we as humans kind of get into this, this, this menu. But the same thing is, I think is gonna be true for dogs, right?

(19:34):

Based on their personality. And so it's kind of like, there isn't, you know, there are gonna be some commonalities, like a lot of dogs like looking at dogs, but that doesn't mean that all dogs like looking at dogs. So part about knowing their personality is then you can just, like, you have a guide for humans. You can have a guide for, for dogs, right? Okay, I know my dog, you know, is this type of personality, these are types of shows that would be linked up to that dog's personality, right? So, okay. They're really anxious, all right, I'm not gonna put on, you know, show, you know, game shows with bells and things like that, you know, that might be a bad choice, right? But, um, they're really excitable. My dog needs, uh, you know, you know, you might say like, oh, there's a tennis match on that would be perfect. You know, dog can track, you know, the tennis ball or, or soccer or whatever, whatever, you know, so you could use it that way. Basically, you could So create a, a menu, right? Use a menu to kind of select programming for your dog.

Speaker 2 (20:31):

Yeah, I think like a playlist, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 4 (20:34):

<laugh>. I think that's, I think that's where knowing your dog's personality and using it in a way to kind of program what they watch, I think is, is, you know, a potential good impact for the future, right? So I know, I know there's a lot of dog TV content, right? So like, so to, you know, I could see, you know, selecting, you know, you get to select those shows, but knowing your personality of your dog will help you select those shows to find the best fit for them.

Speaker 2 (20:59):

Yeah. Well, I, I, we were so excited to read about your study, um, you know, being that we're with dog tv, so, um, I'm, I'm glad that we got to talk about it today and what, what's next? What, uh, how can people follow your work or, um, find out about what kind of, where the study might might take you next?

Speaker 4 (21:19):

Yeah, great question. So, so, um, the survey was the first step. The next step is, all right, what do dogs actually watch in their living room? Alright? I mean, it, it's, you know, you can design it for that they things that you think what they would like, right? But what do they actually do? So what I wanna do is, is, um, and we're working on it now, is putting a series of videos based on content, right? And you have basically have the person, citizen science kind of watch the video on YouTube with them, for instance, right? And then they record their dog as you're sitting at home, just like you would at home in your den your living room, wherever you watch tv, right? Characterize their behavior, build an echogram that actually shows what the dog is doing while they're attending or not attending to the content on the tv.

(22:12):

So then you, you now you've got, you've got your survey saying, oh, these are the things we, people say they're watching. Well, what are they really watching? And what are they really doing? And so I think that's the next phase. It's kind of this, for me anyways, for this, this citizen science project where you're recording your dog at home, watching content and seeing how they respond. And, and I think, and then that, that's the interesting question. Then you really know whether those, those, that guy, that selection is great. And you could also use it like, oh, they're not responding. Maybe I need to try these other shows and see what happens there. You can build off it, right? And find out the, the best thing for your dog.

Speaker 2 (22:50):

Yeah. And where can, uh, where can our listeners, uh, read the study?

Speaker 4 (22:55):

Yeah. So it's published in Scientific Reports. It is, uh, it's open axis, so anybody can click on the link to that article and, and read it.

Speaker 3 (23:05):

Yep. I've, yeah, I've got it up. Uh, I'm on nature.com articles and, uh, first maybe through that, but, um, yeah, no, we, we set up a, we set up a monitor for our office, cat. I know this is a dog study, but, uh, you know, there's <laugh> you could work through all the, the species of animals, maybe <laugh>.

Speaker 2 (23:24):

Yeah. This will keep you busy for a while, Dr. Katz.

Speaker 3 (23:27):

Yeah,

Speaker 4 (23:27):

Awesome.

Speaker 2 (23:28):

<laugh>, thank you so much for joining us today.

Speaker 4 (23:30):

Yeah, it's a pleasure chatting with you too. Bye-bye.

Speaker 3 (23:36):

That was cool. Super cool. I, I think, uh, I think it's just so relevant and also, uh, you know, being a vet, as a scientist, getting like scientific data, um, I think there's so much potential too, uh, of just like more, more interest in studies that are going to give owners a lot of resources to help support their dogs, um, and find a, an appropriate kind of interaction with tv. Unlike my three-year-olds in their iPads, <laugh>.

Speaker 2 (24:08):

All right. Please join me in welcoming our guest, Tiffany Jones. She's the founder of Forest Tale's Doggy Day Camp, a 12 acre nature-based dog adventure retreat located just outside Godrich, Ontario. Her soulful, thoughtfully curated camp blends, forest trails, springed pond swims, nose lead exploration and enrichment activities to support canine physical wellness and emotional transformation touted. As forest therapy meets play therapy, forest Tales specializes in helping dogs, especially shy or high energy rescue dogs, uh, to build confidence, calmness, and deeper connection through meaningful nature immersed experiences. Welcome, Tiffany.

Speaker 5 (24:52):

Thank you so much. I have nothing left to say that was <laugh> pretty much wrapped it up,

Speaker 2 (24:57):

<laugh>. Well, I'm just fascinated by this camp. It sounds amazing. Um, can you just maybe tell us a little bit about how you created such a camp and why

Speaker 5 (25:07):

It was inspired by the property? Nature is absolutely magical. I've always been attracted to the forest. It's always been my go-to my equalizer. A sense of home away from home didn't matter where I lived. Um, I have dogs of my own. So, um, the forest, I love the smell after the rain, um, the smell of earth, whether it's pine resin. So it, it just, it holds a special place. And this property is within a huge enchanted, uh, private forest. And so I saw it and I immediately thought, oh my gosh, like I have to host something where dogs come. The property didn't have power or hydro. So I had to really think about, okay, it can't be all day. Um, which, you know, I would love to do everything for dogs and be everything to everybody, but I had to focus. So then I thought, okay, it's gonna be an adventure camp.

(25:55):

And then the benefits that we were, um, some of the pet parents were saying were phenomenal and started just coming as a natural corollary to, like you said, forest therapy, the frequency of nature, um, the harmonizing force, the power, and sort of the resonance of joy. Um, so I'm kind of like the conductor of joy. The dogs are the actors. <laugh>, they have the script, but they act out, and it's never the same. No two camp days are ever the same. And so we kind of move from theater to theater, and the forest has multiple trails. They're up looking at the sky and seeing a hawk fly over, then they're smelling wild flowers. And then, so the sense of scent too, the olfactory, um, sort of engagement and enrichment is huge. Being that, you know, uh, I'm sure you've heard people talk about the fact that humans have five, maybe 5 million receptors for scent, and dogs have 40 million.

(26:49):

So the forest holding over 100,000 smells that dogs can recognize is absolutely amazing for reducing cortisol and engaging them and empowering them. You know, once they recognize the smell, it's already a sort of a sense of, I've arrived. I, I know something, I can do this. Um, so we move from scent work to jumping over moss ridden logs to, um, alding like wild horses down to the pond where, you know, I've had swimmers swim for the first time or dock dive, um, and then there's pack play. So it's total wellness for canines. It's mind, body, and spirit. So the body's engaged with the physical activity and the quick muscle, um, play where they're kind of rooting down and playing with the dog's leg. And then when Bobs down this, this movement is so tiring. It's more than a walk around the block. It's just, it, it really is a wholehearted adventure.

(27:41):

Um, for spirit. It's the sense of being in a pack descending from wolves. There is a sense that they really do enjoy and have fun and build this friendship and trust and bond with the faithfulness of moving with the pack. Um, and so that's what we do. We move with the pack, we're physically engaged. We're having all that scent work that's super tiring, but also really enriching. Um, I have a camp cafe that pops up where I put funny hats on, I'm not sure. So if you've seen the videos, but people love them. I live in a, a small town and I'm a bit of a talker, sorry. Um, and they strangers say, oh, I love your videos. It just brings joy. So the dogs in their essence are kind of being rewild rewired. So the frequency of nature being that lowering of cortisol, the scent work, the natural environment that play on textures and the different terrain is so fulfilling, and then giving them a sense of safety and belonging within forest tales, um, whether you're anxious or a bit reactive or a little fearful, they're building confidence and resilience in ways that I, I didn't even see foresee kind of going on this adventure.

Speaker 2 (28:52):

Yeah, yeah. So <laugh>, uh, you've painted this incredible mental picture. I feel like I'm experiencing it myself, Dr. Ross. Uh,

Speaker 3 (29:00):

Yeah, no, Tiffany, I, I love everything about what you just said. I, i

Speaker 2 (29:05):

<laugh>

Speaker 3 (29:05):

My dog is, uh, is just waiting. Like when we're not at like, our family's property, which is our little Colorado version, um, up, uh, up near like the ski resorts or whatever, when we're not there, she's, I can just tell she's just like, I'm running at 60% of myself or whatever. Um, but I think, uh, man, what a great, what a great setup. I, I would be curious, how long ago did you start it and like, were you involved with animals, like as far as like a, an occupation prior to this and you kind of merged it, or was it just like, I wanna do animals and make use of this beautiful property?

Speaker 5 (29:42):

Well, it's interesting, and I've always been an empath, so I've always been the person who's drawn to animals at the party. I don't like small talk, so I have a bit of a natural empath healing vibe. I then wanted to study animal communication. So I took several courses and then having my own dogs, I was always looking for different training techniques or body language tips or, and I'm just a little bit hypervigilant anyway, so I'm super observant. So I'm always looking at the prick of an ear and this and that. But before I even had my own dogs, I would wheel up to a friend or a neighbor and say, can I take buddy for a walk? And I was, I was just walking other people's dogs for the company and the bonding. I just love the unconditional love of animals, right? We talk about nature having a frequency, the forest having a resonance, um, joy having, you know, um, Hawkins talked about frequencies of words.

(30:32):

Joy is almost the high, one of the highest frequencies you can, you can get, right? It's contagions, it's, and so dogs have that. They're, and I I love what you said about, um, your dog waiting 60. He is only living that sick. It's like a battery needing recharging. Um, you know, how they have human years to dog years. Well, they've predicted that it's basically one dog day is about two months of a human's life. So you can imagine giving them these experiences. And dogs, they say dream. So it's like, I always think about it tucking adventures under their paws. They now have this whole world that, like your TV programming where they can go to now. Um, but yeah, so I was always drawn to animals. I naturally wanted to study them. I'm a natural sort of empath and intuit, and I, um, always sort of harmonized better with animals than people <laugh>.

(31:26):

Um, not that I didn't, but I just had a huge, like many people, they love animals, right? The joy is contagious. We love them, they're unconditional love, but they don't, they're here for just a compressed period of time. Um, and so there's a preciousness to that. And, and then they're like, angels wrapped in fur. So, you know, I loved nature, I loved dogs. When I saw the property, I'm like, I have to do something. And then it all sort of started just evolving. And then the benefits were just things people started saying to me, were happening. And then I, I get to witness really cool things daily that I never would've seen coming, just, and it's the magic of the, obviously the nature, it's the magic of the pack. So typically I have campers coming once or twice a week, and it's the same day every week.

(32:15):

And if I introduce a new camper, I do it very slowly. We do a lot of bum sniffing. Um, and then we kind of move on and, and because it's an expansive property too, they're not in a small pen, they're not in a, a cement yard, they're not playing with plastic bones. It's such an immersive experience that any sort of fears or tendencies like humans get. We've had past things that happen to us. We have different fears. We don't feel we belong, but when you get them in a safe structured yet immersive, uh, environment, there's this natural healing that takes place.

Speaker 2 (32:53):

Yeah. So what, I have a question. What, what's the average size of the, the number of dogs that go on the adventure? Yeah. And, and is it led by you or is it self-led, or how, how does that work?

Speaker 5 (33:06):

So it's fully led by me. I am literally the Pied Piper <laugh>. I sing to them. I, I always wanna be attuned. I'm affirming them the whole time. So I mostly pick up about 80% of the campers. Some are driven in, um, we have a huge fenced pen. Nobody goes in there. It does contain a treat caravan. We do fun dress up and seasonal things there. Um, but it's really just to keep them safe off the laneway. And it's a kilometer in this treeline laneway. So it's like they have access to their own dog retreat or private golf course for dogs <laugh>, like, it's like club med for dogs, basically <laugh>. Um, but I, if there's introductions to be made, I do those. And then I conduct and we do our wee wees and our poo-poos and off we go. And then we have our second wee wee and Poo p and then we go, and I always do that sort of down this long.

(33:50):

We have a hundred acres, um, buffered beside us on one side and a hundred on the other side. So there's a path we go up where I can see them and pick them all up. Um, I joke, I used to host celebrities on national television. Now I pick up Poo for a living <laugh>, it's a wild ride, right? It's a wild ride. But, um, I host them. I sing to them. I moderate and manage behaviors as I go along. Um, and dogs shake it off. They teach us to live in the moment. It really is reminding me every day of, of to be mindful. Um, and it's just so pure. Um, so yeah, a lot of it is is directed by, they don't wanna be away from me. Um, we bought a paddle boat for a huge pond this summer, which is a riot. I'll, I'll get in the paddle boat and they swim like little dolphins after me, and I give treats, and it's this whole other experience.

(34:35):

It's really neat. Um, but another person was in the paddle boat and they're like, yeah, no, we're not interested. They just wanna be with me. They see me as their PAC leader. Um, which also I've heard that their recall is like 80% better even after just three visits at camp, because they don't want, it's like fear of FOMO for dogs. They don't wanna miss out. So I just whistle and boom, like a herd of horses. They come <laugh>, they wanna be with the pack. Um, I can't even go, you know, to the bathroom. I have to literally, I'm with them for two hours straight. I don't leave. And that makes me hyper aware too, of any little thing so I can correct it. Um, I do everything with kindness, everything with affirmation. Everything's very positive. If I have to be stern, it's for a second. Um, and, and then we redirect and we move on. It's, it's just a very flowy, flowy thing.

Speaker 2 (35:28):

We're up on time, but, um, this has been a fascinating, uh, conversation and can you please tell us where we can learn more about Forest Tales and where can we follow you on social media?

Speaker 5 (35:38):

Thank you so much. Um, my website is up and it's, um, www dot Forest Tales, TAIL s.ca dog tail. But we tell tales on the site as well. Everything's there. Um, I'm on everything from Instagram, which is at Forest Tales Camp, uh, TikTok, which is at Forest Tales and Facebook, which is Forest Tales.

Speaker 3 (36:01):

Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, Tiffany. Thanks

Speaker 5 (36:04):

Guys. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (36:09):

Wow. She was amazing. I, I wish, I wish I wasn't so far away from Ontario. This sounds like it'd be a great thing to do it with my dog, tulip.

Speaker 3 (36:16):

No, absolutely. I I think it brought up a lot of emotion and, uh, memories and like significant experiences with my dog, uh, up in the mountains here in Colorado, in the Rocky Mountains. And it's, uh, it just affirms what I think my soul already knew. Um, but uh, just seeing my dog Charlie rip around and try and find little chipmunks and squirrels and it's, it's, there's nothing better. And to be able to have access to that in a, in that form for people is huge. The

Speaker 2 (36:47):

Product of the week. Alright, it is time for our product of the week recommendations. Dr. Ross, I am super excited to hear what yours is today, <laugh>.

Speaker 3 (36:58):

Yeah, so, um, these are super great. Uh, it's, this is a, a Mexican stratocaster, um, fender guitar, and

Speaker 2 (37:09):

It's actually a pet product that

Speaker 3 (37:12):

We wanted

Speaker 2 (37:13):

You to recommend. Oh,

Speaker 3 (37:14):

I was actually, this, this is a, this is a giant, this is a giant, uh, chew toy, actually, <laugh>, it looks real. It's actually very soft and it's meant for chewing on. So, um, yeah, I, these are great. Uh, they're the same cost as real guitars and they feel as heavy and actually play like a real guitar.

Speaker 2 (37:31):

I bet they sound just as well, just as good too. They,

Speaker 3 (37:33):

They do, but it's, it's, it's honestly, uh, yeah, it's just a chew toy. So anyway, they're, they're great. You can see 'em on my website and, but I'm just kidding. I don't have <laugh>, I don't have, that

Speaker 2 (37:44):

Was a great product rec recommendation for our listeners who are musicians. But for our listeners who are pet parents, do you have a product recommendation? <laugh>,

Speaker 3 (37:53):

I think, um, so if you have an active, like active Labrador or Ozzy or something, I think the product that always ended up in my hand when we'd go for walks to help get energy out was, uh, pretty basic. But it's the Chuck it, uh, ball tossing kind of combo. So they've got these great balls that are, are quite vetted and safe. And then this thing helps launch the ball way further than I could ever throw. Um, and it'll save your shoulder, your bicep, your wrist, um, maybe some lower back, um, quads if, uh, if you're Ron, um, <laugh> gets his quads into when he throws, uh, apparently. But either way, it's, it's just a great, great entertaining and they, they get to get some energy out, they'll be more behaved and then they can come back, relax and, you know, watch some dog tv. So that would be my, my product recommendation.

Speaker 2 (38:47):

Well, I think that's a great one. We are a huge Chuck it fans here, um, at our household. And, um, I think I have, I have every launcher they've ever come up with. And have you ever seen the ring launcher? They have, it's like this, it's a ring, it's like a donut, um, made out of the same material as the ball is. Um, but this one is a ring that you toss and that thing will fly so far. So yeah, that we love Chuck it <laugh> awesome.

Speaker 3 (39:13):

Yeah, no, that, that's super cool. Now I get to look up a, a ring and

Speaker 2 (39:16):

So yeah, the Chuck it ring. Um,

Speaker 3 (39:19):

How about you though? Like yeah, what's I, I'm sure you've got, uh, you've got some insight into some good sneaky secret products.

Speaker 2 (39:26):

Yeah, you know, the pressure's always on when, when I have to come up with a new product of the week, because there, there are so many. Um, but the one I picked today, I picked it honestly because I thought it was, it was cute and also because it's under $20. And what it is, is it's a treat puzzle, which we talk about a lot here, um, on the Pets at Life podcast because they're so great for enrichment. And, um, but this particular treat puzzle is a pizza party treat puzzle. So it's shaped like a pizza. And what's kind of cool about it is it's a good starter puzzle feeder. So if you have a dog that's never used a puzzle feeder, um, when I was reading the description, it said it's a really easy one to fit for dogs to figure out. So if you have a dog that's never used one before or a dog that's kind of slower to pick up on how, how it works, <laugh>, this would be a really good one to try. And as you know, doc, um, these are great for men, like a little mental workout while they're eating. Um, and good also for dogs who eat too fast.

(40:32):

So, um, yeah, it's, this one comes with a guide on how to use it. I don't know if that's for the dog to read or for the pet parent, but, um, by a certified professional dog trainer offering tips and activities to maximize engagement. And it's got, it's got great reviews on Amazon and apparently there is a dog that was able to solve this puzzle in 3.2 seconds flat. So that dog probably needs a more complex puzzle feeder. Uh, but this one's great for your dog if they're just starting to use them.

Speaker 3 (41:04):

Oh, love it. Yeah. Puzzle feeders I think are, are super great q and a.

Speaker 2 (41:11):

Alright, Dr. Ross, this brings us to our favorite part of the show and that is where we get to answer questions that were submitted by our viewers and listeners. And if you are listening and you're wondering how do you get your question answered by Dr. Ross or myself or whoever the guest co-host might be that week, um, all you have to do is go to pets at life.org/podcast and you scroll down to the bottom of the page there and you can either type in your question and submit it, or even better, you can submit a voice, me, what do you call it, a voice memo or like a, an audio question. And we would love to hear your voice, maybe your dog or cat chiming it in the background <laugh>. So with that said, um, Dr. Ross, I have a perfect, uh, question I wanna tee up for you here. Uh, this one comes from Sarah in Seattle and she says, how often does my pet really need to come in for exams and vaccinations? Should I bring them every six months or just once a year?

Speaker 3 (42:15):

Uh, this great question, Sarah. Um, as a veterinarian, I think the, this can, this can be dependent on stage of life if we have any medical issues. Um, I would say generally for a healthy kind of younger dog annually, so once a year, uh, a few vaccines are gonna be due every year. Like here in Colorado, uh, we're Lepto sclerosis is a, is a yearly vaccine that is now a core vaccine, uh, based on the, the wildlife. But, and then other, other situations like puppies, we're seeing them every few weeks until they're four months old. And then senior dogs is where most times that's where we're aiming for biannual or semi-annual, uh, wellness visits, um, checking in on wellness blood work and things. 'cause preventative medic medicine is, uh, uh, or pre preventative care is typically going to be so much more impactful in, uh, a long, healthy, good quality of life, uh, for our, for our buddies. So hopefully that answers our question there.

Speaker 2 (43:24):

How about you read me, uh, yeah, the next question, and I'm probably gonna pull you into this one too, because

Speaker 3 (43:29):

No, for sure. I'm curious, question from Mark in Chicago. Uh, he says, is my dog at a healthy weight and how do I know if they're too heavy and what should I do if they are

Speaker 2 (43:39):

Okay? So I,

Speaker 3 (43:40):

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (43:41):

I love this question because my husband and I are having this little sort of mini argument <laugh> in the back over whether or not

Speaker 3 (43:48):

Tulip for sure,

Speaker 2 (43:49):

Just a second. I think Tulip is a couple pounds overweight and my husband thinks she's perfect, <laugh>.

Speaker 3 (43:56):

Love it.

Speaker 2 (43:56):

And this is what I've, what I've always heard, and tell me if this is correct, um, one of the ways you can tell is by, uh, seeing if you can feel their ribs when you hundred

Speaker 3 (44:08):

Percent Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:08):

Pet them. Um, I, I can feel them, but there's definitely some padding on top there. And then another way I've been told is if you look down at your pet while they're standing on all fours on the ground, you wanna see a slight indentation, you know, just past their rib cage. And I don't see that with Tulip, so I don't know, I'm thinking she's a couple pounds overweight. Uh, but, uh, her, her vet appointment isn't until next month. So we'll get the, uh, the official answer from her vet. But what say you, Dr. Russ?

Speaker 3 (44:38):

Yeah, absolutely. Um, actually my dad, he's been a vet for 50 plus years, and his anecdotal kind of perception is, uh, like 80% of the dogs that come in to our practice are overweight. Uh, and owners believe that their dog's body condition is like appropriate. Um, I tell people almost daily as well that I don't get too fussed about the actual number. It's more the body condition score and, uh, the W-S-A-V-A, like Global Nutrition Committee has a great resource scales from one to nine, and then you can actually see a visual representation of what healthy body weight looks like. So we're aiming for kind of around that five, I even go kind of five, six and six is upper ideal, five is lower, but you're absolutely right. Being able to feel the ribs easily, a narrowing kind of past the thorax. And then from the side, uh, it's very rare for any dog species or breed, sorry, to just have a flat across to the back. Or even worse, a big bowl <laugh>, um, <laugh>.

Speaker 2 (45:44):

So it should go up a little bit toward the

Speaker 3 (45:47):

End. Oh, yeah. So right after the chest, it should tuck in extreme versions of this, uh, for references like, uh, like a sight hound, like a Greyhound, for example. Their, you know, their belly and then the opposite might be like a slightly overweight corgi is like just a rectangle, you know? Right, right. Um, and then if they are overweight, uh, as a vet, one thing, you know, adjusting food, increasing exercise, if those aren't working, um, it's not a bad idea. Do we have something else going on? It's, it's reassuring to owners when we check blood and we find out the thyroid's low and they're like, cool, I'm not crazy.

Speaker 2 (46:22):

Right?

Speaker 3 (46:23):

<laugh>, we fix the thyroid and then the body condition improves. It's, it's really satisfying.

Speaker 2 (46:27):

Yeah. Great question, mark. Thank you so much for that. And Dr. Ross, that brings us to the end of our show already.

Speaker 3 (46:33):

I know, I know. It's crazy. We, we've got our cameras, but we're sitting next to each other, so I'm gonna just stand up and give you a hug.

Speaker 2 (46:40):

Oh, okay. Let's do that. <laugh>

Speaker 3 (46:42):

Wouldn't, or just

Speaker 2 (46:43):

Let's try it. Oh,

Speaker 3 (46:44):

Wait, wait. No, you gotta go. Oh, you gotta go the other. Okay.

Speaker 2 (46:47):

Sorry. No, <laugh>. I love that. Uh, Dr. Ross, it's always a pleasure to have you on the show. It's been so much fun. And let's, um, tell everybody where they can follow you. Yeah. And see

Speaker 3 (46:59):

Some of those funny videos of you at 19. I think it's, it's Dr. Ross Henderson or Ross Henderson Music, I can't remember. And then Instagram is Dr. Ross Henderson TikTok. Facebook is all, all the same, but, um, my life's pretty crazy. I I I'm not as active as I would like to be, but, well, you

Speaker 2 (47:15):

Have a lot going on with twin three, twin three year olds.

Speaker 3 (47:18):

Yeah. They'll, they'll be 18 at some point and then I can get back into it, right. <laugh>

Speaker 2 (47:22):

<laugh>, if you're not watching us, you should be on YouTube. You can check us out on Dog TV's YouTube channel or on the Dog TV's Unleashed channel on Amazon Fast Channels and Stir. And of course, you can catch us as well on all the pets ad life, social media channels. And with that, it is time to wrap up Pets,

Speaker 1 (47:42):

Add Life, your guide to the latest in Pet Trends products, and the joy of the Human Animal Bond with Kristen Levine and Chris Bon, powered by the American Pet Products Association and Dog tv.