54. Mastering Dog Training & Unlocking Gut Health for Pets

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Voice Over
Pets add life. Your guide to the latest in pet trends, products and the joy of the human animal bond with Christian Levine and Chris Bowen, a fan powered by the American Pet Products Association and Dog TV.

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Chris
All right, welcome to another episode of the Pal podcast. I'm Chris Bonafide, joined, as always, by the perfect and pristine Kristin Levine. Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo.

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Kristen
Is that my theme song?

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Chris
Seems like you got a little jingle in there now, because I ran. So now you have a you have you have a whole. You have a sitcom jingle. It's like they play the music whenever your character appears.

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Kristen
Always wanted one.

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Chris
Yeah. I feel like you would. You would have a jingle. I would be more of like a Cosmo Kramer. Like when I appear, I'm kicking down the door.

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Kristen
Yeah. You know.

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Chris
I've got something in my hands that's just inexplicable. You would think that's great. But, hey, you know, we may not be a sitcom, but we're pretty awesome podcast here to bring you two great stories. Two fantastic guests, two wonderful products. And at the end, we're going to answer two of your questions. And listen, if we may not have the family dynamics that, classic 90s sitcom may have, but, you know, we've got animal spirit, we've got the gumption.

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Chris
So, stick around and see you see what we got going on for you guys today. Kristen and Chris present story time.

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Kristen
All right. We are going to start off with our two stories for story time. Chris. Okay. And I'm going to I'm going to go first. I've been on this cat roll lately with cat stories.

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Chris
So you have been I've noticed.

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Kristen
Yeah, yeah. And, I don't know, I just come across some interesting cat stuff, and I thought I'd shed some light today on some interesting cat behavior that happens either in a multi cat home or cat colonies, or anywhere where there are multiple cats cohabitating. So according to research from the Cornell Feline Health Center and the international Cat care, there are some interesting reasons behind the behavior of synchronized grooming.

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Kristen
So this is.

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Chris
It.

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Kristen
Sounds like a new Olympic sport. So this is when, like, two cats are laying, you know, next to one another over near one another, and they both start grooming themselves at the same time. And this is because, it it helps to maintain group harmony in a multi cat home. It, it commonly happens between bonded cats.

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Kristen
Duh. Like that makes sense. And and they also said that it's sort of like when humans yawn. It makes the other human yawn. So like when one cat starts screaming, the other cat starts grooming, like, I don't know, kind of interesting. It also shows that they feel that the environment is safe and it demonstrates trust among the cats.

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Kristen
Now, there's also, another kind of grooming. It's called Alo grooming, which is mutual grooming. When cats groom each other. And this is usually because they're showing trust and affection for one another. It strengthens social bonds among cats, as you would imagine. And it also helps to reach hard, hard to reach spots. So if you have a, maybe a bigger cat overweight and you notice that, another cat's grooming, maybe she's trying to help them out a little bit.

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Kristen
I don't know if that was a joke, but that was in there. That was actually part of the the article I read, so, I don't know, take what you well from that. Have you ever noticed that I know you don't have two cats, but I don't.

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Chris
Have two cats. I haven't had two cats in quite some time. One of the things that I noticed I lived in a dog and cat household was the dog was a puppy. When the cat is already an adult and the dog actually picked up on a lot of cat mannerisms, which is absolutely adorable. Definitely. Like, you know, that sense of community and, sort of adopted some of those traits based on what the dog saw.

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Chris
So I can only imagine that, the, the community amongst cats is even, even, tighter knit than that. It's very interesting the way animals express themselves. Yeah, it.

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Kristen
Is. What kind of story do you have today?

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Chris
Yeah, well, mine's interesting too, but different. Little different. So here's here's the headline. I'm going to read the headline word lab Grown meat goes on sale in UK. Dog food. Interesting. So that is I mean, that's that's the whole story. Let's move on.

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Kristen
Did you say did you say lab grown?

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Chris
Lab grown? So this is okay. The supplier is meekly. And their technology, they claim, could eventually eliminate farm animals from the pet food industry and reduce carbon emissions, as well as the use of land and water and meat production. They say you take a single, you take cells from a single chicken egg, and from that they could create a, basically an infinite amount of meat, where they said it's essentially the same, kind of process as making beer, which, yeah, I don't know how I'm going to get that image out of my head.

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Chris
But it's a similar, like, fermentation and ization process with these cells that basically allow them to develop the way that they, they would have developed into a chicken. So it's pretty incredible. It's definitely different. I don't know about the health benefit or non benefits of lab grown meat, but with sustainability being on people's minds, let's be honest about something before we as people start eating the lab meat we're going to be feeding that to animals first.

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Chris
We all know it. We're afraid to say it, but we all know it. We've already stepped out of it. I think I insect based diets, which is like a thing they want people to do, I want. But it's it's it's weird. I don't know how to react.

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Kristen
Yeah. I think I'd want to taste it first. I want to know what does it actually taste like, chicken or beef or whatever. So I don't.

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Chris
Know if I've ever had lab grown, but I've had like the Beyond Burger and Beyond sausage and stuff like that. And it I won't say it tastes like meat, but I will say it tastes good.

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Kristen
Yeah, I'd agree with that.

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Chris
Yeah. So we'll say look out. If you're a fighter from the UK, make sure you check the packaging on whatever people buy by. You don't know. You don't know what they're feeding you anymore. Beyond the leash exploring the untold stories of pet passion and professionals.

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Kristen
Well, I am so honored to introduce our guests. This is really exciting. He's a pioneer in dog training. We're absolutely thrilled to welcome Doctor Ian Dunbar. Now, Doctor Dunbar is a world renowned veterinarian, animal behaviorist, and dog trainer who's really revelation revolutionized the way we train and understand our canine companions. He holds a veterinary degree from the Royal Veterinary College in London and a PhD in animal behavior from UC Berkeley.

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Kristen
Doctor Dunbar is best known for creating the world's first off leash puppy socialization and training program called Serious Puppy Training, which transformed the way pet parents raise and train their puppies. He's also the founder of the Association of Pet Dog Trainers and has authored numerous books, including Before and After Getting Your Puppy and How to Teach an Old Dog New Tricks.

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Kristen
Doctor Dunbar's positive reinforcement training methods have shaped the way dog trainers and pet owners approach behavior focused on rewards rather than punishment. And I think I could go on with with more of your accolades. Doctor Dunbar, welcome to the Pet Sad Life podcast.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
Thank you for inviting me.

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Kristen
Yeah, it's it's really an honor to have you here. So, let's just talk about, back in 1982, you created serious puppy training. Which, as I mentioned, is kind of a game changer for the way we train puppies. Can you tell us what led to that innovation?

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
I can my wife, said that we were in bodega Bay and she gave me cigars that eon go and get on a rock and smoke this. And don't come back till you can tell me how you're going to bring money into this relationship. That's awesome. And what? Well, probably should be to do with cows or dogs.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
I feel like dogs. I've been studying them for ten years. I know I'll start a puppy school because back then you had to wait till they were six months to a year old to get them into class. And you just did obedience drills. So the neat thing about the puppy school, the syllabus was infinite. You see, when you were doing an AKC obedience class, it's like you're taking an exam, but you know the questions beforehand.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
Like, you know, when I was a vet, say, when we had the anatomy exam, they said, it's going to be the dog's stifle. Don't worry about any other species or any other joints. Well, we wouldn't be qualified. But we're puppies. You've got to be prepared for everything. I mean, how did you know two children in the family got to go hunting for malamute with high powered water pistols?

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Chris
No, I like it.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
Right. But you've got to prepare the dog to live with people. And that is a never ending quest. And so there's a and an easier way we make sure the dogs have by the mission. So this is what they learn naturally with each other if we let them, if we let puppies play with each other and dogs play with each other on a regular basis, they will never hurt someone when they bite them.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
You know? Think about it. When you've seen a dog fight, you think, oh my God, they're going to kill each other. There's not a neck. How do they manage to inhibit the force of their jaws when under such out of over the top, you know, duress because they have bite inhibition. It's so hard wired in dogs to learn this.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
So anyway, it created something absolutely wonderful, you know. But my favorite two things to do are to teach a puppy class, which I'm doing on Saturday. So my son is subbing for the trainer who's away because he wants to become a puppy trainer, and I'm his assistant.

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Chris
It's amazing.

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Kristen
I love that.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
And the second most wonderful thing is lecturing to people about animal behavior, temperament, training and what have you. But you know what? Everything I did in 82 is now gone. We're going backwards in training. It's so sad. Positive reinforcement training is just going down the toilet and we're not creating what we did. And that's why now trainers spend all that time dealing with anxiety and stress in dogs because essentially by neglect, the dog training profession has created these problems because we're not teaching puppy classes anymore.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
I just did a survey of dog trainer demographics around the world like mainly US, England, Australia and found that only 15% of trainers are teaching classes at all, mostly on leash and very few puppies. So off leash puppy classes are a rare, but instead they're dealing with, you know, individual consults, mainly on zoom, dealing with stress, anxiety, and aggression.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
It's like it makes me want to cry. Everything I created in 55 years is gone. So what I'm doing now is the exciting bit. What an opportunity to redo what I did in 82.

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Chris
What I'm.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
Doing.

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Chris
Oh, it's yes, like everything else, it's just a reboot of something from the 80s. You know, that's that's. Yeah. But you talk to us a little bit about, you know, positive and reward based training in puppies. What makes, your, style superior? Why are you trying to bring it back? What what problems does it solve?

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Chris
And and how exactly are you going about, training those puppies to ensure success in a home?

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
Yeah, I don't actually use words like superior or better.

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Chris
Don't worry. I use them for you. Yeah.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
Like, this is easier, quicker and more effective. So firstly, it comes down to training puppies that what what spurred me into this, you ask? Why did they start? But we had a malamute puppy, Omaha, and he was like, three months old. And that's when I was asked to earn some money. And so I rang round about 50 dog training schools to get him in, and they said, oh, no, he can't start at least six months to a year out.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
And I said, what, are you insane? You see, people forget, even though I'm an academic, I'm a farm boy and I know common sense. My grandfather socialized every single animal on the farm the horses, the cows, the pigs, the sheep, the chickens. Do you know what it's like as a kid when you're four weeks old and you've got short trousers to be attacked, but like inspecting calves?

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
No, sir. He socialized and trained all the animals on the farm because he had common sense. So I thought, this is insanity. You can't let a dog grow up and become fearful and aggressive and then try to change it. I mean, that's a that's what people are trying to do now again, no, you got to prevent the problems.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
How easy is it? Oh my God. You just have puppy parties at home. So this is I'm doing all these massive vet conferences now. I mean Vmax and VC, you know, 30,000, 15,000 vets telling them you must tell owners. Well, you don't tell them, don't take him out until he's had his shots. That's like a don't you know, instruction.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
It's do what should they do? They should be having puppy parties at home inviting 100 people between eight weeks. I'm serious. A minimum of 100 people is what the open or minimal health requirement for puppies states a hundred people in the first month at home. When you tell everyone bring two friends outdoor shoes, remain outside, totally safe from parvo, and they come up and they play with and they hug it and they look in its eyes.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
You see the only difference between hugging and petting and restraint and examination in the vet clinic or the groomer, is the dog's perception of the people. Well, if all these people come to your house and they hand feeding all these treats, puppies says, I love this, I love strangers, I love people. Instead of growing up and not liking them, which is a natural process.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
People forget this. It is natural for puppies. As they get older, they become progressively more scared and wary of the unfamiliar, unfamiliar people, unfamiliar dogs. So that was a no brainer. The only way we can do this is by venting the problems. But when you use that word positive reinforcement, it's like a word like doctor or trainer or lawyer.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
Everyone thinks these are all the same. The positive reinforcement is positive reinforcement. Now, the six basic techniques of positive reinforcement and some are much quicker than others. Some are much easier than others, some are more effective.

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Kristen
Than.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
Six. The one I grew up with, which was the easiest, the quickest and the most effective. And the thing about measuring effective is we're looking at behavior that's observable, therefore quantifiable. But people don't do it. They just talk about the nature of it, what you're doing, it's bad, it's nasty, it's inhumane. We are stress free. Yeah, but you're not training the dog, you understand?

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Kristen
Are those what are those six categories of positive of.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
The six techniques?

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Kristen
Well, yeah. Six things.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
Reward training is the one I use because it's the quickest way to teach behaviors on cue or to teach English as a second language, which is what we want. Right? Then we can use our words as instructions to let the dog know exactly what we want it to do. And we can use these words as punishments, because when we define a punishment in behavioral sciences, it doesn't even mention that it's unpleasant or nasty.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
It just says it's a stimulus that causes the immediately preceding behavior to decrease in frequency. So let's say the dog's jumping up. I don't say, well, I'll turn you back on the dog, let it extinguish or teacher draw or dry. I say, just tell him to sit. And the problem dog's chewing your iPhone. Get your chew toy is what I told my dog.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
Now you know it's just came. It's not my dog. Actually. It's my ex-wife's. And she left to Spain with six dogs and left this one with me for a while. So he was going to jump and jump in my lap, which would ruin my street cred. Right? So I won't go to your bed. So he's lying on his bed.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
So we use these words to communicate to the dog. And when they're really useful is when the dog goes off track, because people think the punishment is stopping the bad behavior. No it's not. It is stopping the behavior you don't want, but starting the one you do. Yeah. The single specific behave. So the dogs barking I say Rover shush.

00;17;24;03 - 00;17;52;00
Dr. Ian Dunbar
Don't even raise my voice. So that's my favorite. Then comes all in on reward training, which is tailor made for that out-of-control, inattentive, you know, rambunctious, rumbustious adolescent dog. You just wait until it does what you want. Well, I'm looking for one of six behaviors. It sits, it lies down, it stops bouncing. It stops barking. It looks at me or approaches or it looks cute.

00;17;52;03 - 00;18;11;18
Dr. Ian Dunbar
And I just look at the dog and ignore it until it does one of those things. So that's what we use with shelter animals. And if you train a shelter dog to look cute, he's going to be out of that shelter in a flash. Then comes auto shaping. So auto shaping. Shaping is changing behavior bit by bit. Most people use clickers.

00;18;11;18 - 00;18;30;00
Dr. Ian Dunbar
I never do. So auto shaping is the owner sets it up. So for example, you only feed it in hollow chew toys. That's what the dog has. Now let me let me go and steal it. I'll bring it back. Hang on. There.

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Kristen
Oh, you got a demo. Do do.

00;18;32;15 - 00;18;58;10
Dr. Ian Dunbar
Do that. Oh, yeah. Stuff with food. And that's what we know a lot about. What went on. It's bad. Why? I'm talking to you. So you stuff chew toy and it's magic. Within two days, if you only feed the dog from hollow chew toys, you reduce barking by 90%. And you reduce activity as measured by number of steps taken by 90%.

00;18;58;13 - 00;19;22;16
Dr. Ian Dunbar
So this is what I call quantify viable observable data. Because my little bark activity counter counts this. We get a baseline. Then we change the way we feed them. So feeding in bowls is not good for dogs physiologically or psychologically because it steals the race on that. See what would dogs do in the wild? But if they're not sleeping, they are scavenging the food.

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Dr. Ian Dunbar
Because they're not strict carnivores like cats. Everyone think oh yeah a dog eats a rabbit a day at 5 p.m.. Oh it doesn't.

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Chris
Come back at.

00;19;31;22 - 00;20;04;08
Dr. Ian Dunbar
Five. You're a little early at the moment. I dine at five. No dogs nibble throughout the day and they're looking for grass. You know, different veggies, fallen fruit, slugs, worms. You know thesis is a favorite, especially if I'm being serious. Yeah, yeah, you think about it because it's semi digested vegetarian matter. See, the dog can't digest the grass properly, but if they eat horse poop now, it's semi digested and, you know, whatever.

00;20;04;10 - 00;20;28;02
Dr. Ian Dunbar
Anyway, go on then. We have the most famous one at the moment is clicker training, right? Personally I think it's destroyed a lot of the magic in training because, well, it replaced praise with a click for heaven's sake. Training is now this clinical, impersonal, complicated, time consuming procedure which owners think, what do we do? I don't understand it.

00;20;28;05 - 00;20;48;19
Dr. Ian Dunbar
Why don't we just take like if you go to my websites like, say, serious popcorn, go down to the last video, look inside at classes, you'll see me go up to a puppy in a puppy class, five minutes in and say, hey, puppy, come here, sit down, sit, stand down, stand blurring it. Then you see me come back five minutes later.

00;20;48;19 - 00;21;10;03
Dr. Ian Dunbar
It's all in this little video. Now. I do it with no lure. That puppy has learned ten minutes into class to come and sit, to lie down, to sit up, to stand, to lie down and to stand up from down, from verbal cues and hand signals, you know. So that's why I like lure reward training. It's so quick and it's magic.

00;21;10;03 - 00;21;40;02
Dr. Ian Dunbar
But people don't get the food out of their hands, so it turns into bribing. Yeah. The people don't understand. There's many different positive reinforcement techniques. And so in, you know, my latest book, Barking Up the Right Tree, I analyze these objectively in terms of, you know, what's effective, what's quickest, what's easiest. Because I don't like saying, you know, that's inhumane because that's a value judgment on my part.

00;21;40;02 - 00;22;05;21
Dr. Ian Dunbar
And if you actually ask me, what do you think is inhumane in it, my answer would shock you. I would say most of what the dog training professions are doing right now the humane profession, the kennel clubs, you know, the veterinarians, they aren't giving the right information. And I consider that as inhumane. If you let puppies grow up to be scared of people, yet they have to live with this.

00;22;05;23 - 00;22;29;04
Dr. Ian Dunbar
So I don't use those terms. I only talk about terms. What I which I can present factual proof. And if people disagree with me, I say write 100 bucks on the table. You pick a dog for me, you choose one for yourself. Let's that's and say to do a one minute stand, stay. I'm going to win because I always pick the quickest technique for the job.

00;22;29;07 - 00;22;55;05
Dr. Ian Dunbar
And I do. I use shaping a lot, but I use it for a specific purpose. That is not a generalized sort of companion dog training technique. It's very good for teaching behaviors not in the dog's normal repertoire, of which there are very few. But where it excels is if you take a behavior that's a moment long, like a glance, I can turn it into a one minute watch me.

00;22;55;07 - 00;23;14;17
Dr. Ian Dunbar
Or if you take a quick sit and then run away, I can turn that quick sit into a three minute sit stay by shaping it, building it by baby steps. Wow. I'm sorry you ask a question. I'm not sure you've got to stop me. You understand that, right? So we need a sign here.

00;23;14;20 - 00;23;29;12
Kristen
I tell you what, you are fascinating to listen to, and it makes a lot of sense. We are coming up on time, so can you tell us where we can get your books? Tell us about your website so that, our listeners can get more information.

00;23;29;14 - 00;24;01;06
Dr. Ian Dunbar
Well, the most useful book by far is the recent one. There's not a dog training book like it's called Barking Up the Right Tree. Obviously a lot of bookstores, but Amazon is the the quickest way. My website's the puppy school serious pup outcome. But the huge website, which is the deepest dive in dog behavior and training, it's actually the largest online resource for dog behavior and training information is Dunbar academy.com.

00;24;01;08 - 00;24;20;14
Dr. Ian Dunbar
And it's got hundreds and hundreds of hours of video of dogs playing, dogs being trained and and what it did. And I'm so glad because of what's happened in dog training in the last ten years, that it was my son's idea. He said that I want to digitize that. His brain.

00;24;20;16 - 00;24;21;29
Dr. Holly Ganz
So smart kid.

00;24;22;02 - 00;24;47;10
Dr. Ian Dunbar
For three years, and he videoed every seminar that I gave and that was the nucleus of this. So we have about 100 hours of seminar up there. Wow. Dog aggression, dog human aggression. Dog dog fighting. How to solve it in one session, how to teach a dog part recall, you know, a dog that won't come in the dog part takes one session to teach it because I cherry pick.

00;24;47;16 - 00;25;12;00
Dr. Ian Dunbar
What are the quickest ways to do this? Because I understand owners and they want it yesterday. Like me with electronics, I don't want to understand it. I just want it to work right. And that's how they feel about their dog. And so that's what I try to give them. The easiest, quickest, most effective and most enjoyable way to do it.

00;25;12;02 - 00;25;30;00
Chris
Well, that all sounds absolutely amazing. I'm going to check it out for sure. And if you're listening, check out Doctor Dunbar's books. Thank you so much for taking the time out of what I'm sure is a busy schedule. An early morning out there in California. So thank you so much for joining us today.

00;25;30;02 - 00;25;31;18
Kristen
Yeah. Thank you. Doctor.

00;25;31;21 - 00;25;40;18
Dr. Ian Dunbar
As of my own, yes. I thank you so much for asking me. That was you ask good questions. It was a lot of fun.

00;25;40;21 - 00;25;46;14
Kristen
Thank you. Oh, he's he's a smart guy.

00;25;46;16 - 00;25;58;20
Chris
Yeah. And delivered with a British accent, too, which is. Oh, I love it. Makes it. It makes people sound smarter and more put together and better. So, Yeah, that was a that was a real treat.

00;25;58;23 - 00;26;08;14
Kristen
It's fun to hear all the different, philosophies and dog training. But, you know, his resonated with me a lot because, you know, a lot of dogs that were adopted during the pandemic, including tulip hair.

00;26;08;14 - 00;26;09;01
Chris
Yeah.

00;26;09;03 - 00;26;16;07
Kristen
Have gone on to have, you know, some challenges. And the missus as a puppy, she didn't get much interaction at all.

00;26;16;10 - 00;26;17;05
Chris
Yeah.

00;26;17;08 - 00;26;20;01
Kristen
So I'm going to I'm definitely going to check out Dunbar Academy.

00;26;20;03 - 00;26;40;07
Chris
Yeah. And if you if you want info you should be getting it from the dog trainer who trains the dog trainers like that is. And he's probably even beyond that. He's probably the dog trainer that trains the dog trainers that train the dog. So, you know, that is that is the pinnacle of information that you're going to get pets and life.

00;26;40;09 - 00;27;11;29
Chris
So we are thrilled to welcome doctor Holly Gans to the show. Doctor Gans is the chief science officer and co-founder of Animal Bio, a pioneering company dedicated to revolutionizing pet health through microbiome science. With a PhD in microbial ecology, Doctor Gans has spent over 20 years studying the intricate relationship between microbes and their animal host, revealing just how crucial gut health is to our pets overall well-being.

00;27;12;01 - 00;27;38;16
Chris
At Animal Biome, Doctor Gans and her team have developed cutting edge get gut health tests and microbiome restoration supplements, that are transforming the way we approach pet nutrition and digestive health. Millions of pets suffer from digestive issues like diarrhea, vomiting, constipation. I'm sure all of you listening are like, that's that's my head. That's mine. So we're we're we're going to we're going to talk about all that stuff today with, Doctor Gans.

00;27;38;18 - 00;27;42;21
Chris
Doc, thanks so much for joining us today. Taking some time out of your day.

00;27;42;23 - 00;27;45;08
Dr. Holly Ganz
Oh, thank you for having me. It's my pleasure.

00;27;45;10 - 00;28;05;19
Chris
Of course. So let's let's just pretend. Let's pretend that Chris understood all the words I said in that introduction. But there may be some people out there who didn't, let's let's put some of this into layman's terms. We're talking about microbiomes and gut health. Give us, you know, explain it to me like I'm I'm five.

00;28;05;21 - 00;28;32;05
Dr. Holly Ganz
Well, so, for one thing, we are all covered in a cloud of microbes, and that includes bacteria, fungi, and other tiny little things like viruses that live in and on us and on our pets. And so, like, like to think about it like, you know, pigpen in peanuts, right? Like for a little while and this and the, the main place, we have lots of microbes is in our gut, right.

00;28;32;05 - 00;28;55;23
Dr. Holly Ganz
Like it's the digestive system. And that's a way in which we take in food. That's how we get nutrients, right. And water. But it also can bring in pathogens, right. And so the body has to protect against invasion. And this community that resides in the GI tract and our gut helps to protect it, both helps with digestion and nutrition, but it also helps to protect against invaders.

00;28;55;25 - 00;28;59;04
Kristen
That's excellent. Now I now I understand.

00;28;59;07 - 00;29;03;06
Chris
I always understood but now I understand.

00;29;03;08 - 00;29;13;05
Kristen
Doctor Gans. So what inspired you to to start Animal Biome. And how is it changing the way pet parents approach their pets gut health.

00;29;13;07 - 00;29;31;15
Dr. Holly Ganz
Well I would first transition to really thinking about the microbiome in pets. After I did, I did a postdoc, over at UC Berkeley, and we were looking at wildlife disease and how it was transmitted in the environment. And I started studying the microbes in soil, which are really complex to and kind of similar, like their gut is a little bit like the soil for our bodies.

00;29;31;17 - 00;29;50;15
Dr. Holly Ganz
And I had adopted a herding dog who came to rule my life. And I met with her, and I wanted to just think about her all the time. And, and I thought, you know, I think the tools we're using here might be useful for our pets. And I didn't really fully realize how valuable that would be. Right.

00;29;50;15 - 00;30;07;00
Dr. Holly Ganz
But I just said, I want to think about dogs, and I think that what I'm doing might be useful. And as it turned out, when I did a project on cats, I was looking at cats and dogs and, just to see what what is your cat's gut microbiome look like? And like, why should you care about it?

00;30;07;00 - 00;30;28;14
Dr. Holly Ganz
And I did a Kickstarter and people sent me and their cats poop in a little tube, and I discovered that there were so many people whose cats had terrible diarrhea, and they were on this medical merry go round of prescription diet and antibiotics and steroids. And they were still living with terrible, terrible diarrhea, which is like, right, it's awful to deal with.

00;30;28;16 - 00;30;43;15
Dr. Holly Ganz
And then it's terrible to see your pet suffering from that. And it's the same with dogs. And so they were like, please, please help us. I know that you're not saying that you know something useful yet, but like we want to help you with the research. And so that's sort of what our origins were.

00;30;43;18 - 00;31;08;22
Chris
Yeah, that's that's great. And it's so funny how in love with your dog you are that you were like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna fix all your problems with my science, with kids. How a lot of people end up in, this industry. But, you know, for folks listening at home who may be thinking, hey, well, you know, maybe my animal has, a digestive health issue, what are some of the common signs?

00;31;08;22 - 00;31;18;28
Chris
Like something that might, you know, key them off and say, oh, maybe I should have my animal checked out. Maybe this is a little bit, beyond just normal behavior.

00;31;19;01 - 00;31;39;08
Dr. Holly Ganz
Right? This is. Yeah, this is great. And really, what we want to do is empower people to be able to identify these things and help them. Because you can't see the vet every day and they're too busy and it's, you know, and so, one thing like there's several like we have some stool charts that like looking at your pet's poop, right, is a way to sort of assess a bit of what's going on.

00;31;39;08 - 00;31;59;17
Dr. Holly Ganz
And it's like non-intrusive to them. Right? It's not a blood sample like they're donating that poop every day. And you can look at it, you can assess like its consistency, like if it's too soft or too firm. That's telling you something about things going on there. So you want it to be like firm but not too firm. And then also like color, right.

00;31;59;17 - 00;32;17;14
Dr. Holly Ganz
Like it's kind of gross, but, you know, like color also can tell you something like, if it's really green, it can mean they're eating a lot of grass. That was it was freaky the first time I saw a really green poop, but it turned out that dog was just eating tons of grass. It can be. It can be really yellow if there's a lot of bile acids in it there.

00;32;17;15 - 00;32;45;07
Dr. Holly Ganz
So we have some charts to help people with this. And so there are tools on the doctor. Google is helpful. And see also. Like are they eating right. That's always a big sign too. They seem to have like react to different foods and be sensitive to them. That can be also an indication. I think what we've been realizing is that, like a lot of people think their pets have like food allergies, but it really might just be that their microbiome is not in good shape.

00;32;45;07 - 00;32;49;13
Dr. Holly Ganz
And so then they can't properly digest the food that they need.

00;32;49;16 - 00;32;56;02
Kristen
I have a question. Can stress can a pet that's experiencing stress or anxiety, can that affect their microbiome?

00;32;56;04 - 00;33;15;01
Dr. Holly Ganz
Definitely. And I would just add on that like that. There's you know, it's sort of controversial is like IBS or irritable bowel syndrome a real thing. But everybody who everybody who's added themselves or has their pets have no. It's right that stress can trigger right sass tools. Yes. And stress. Stress can have many effects on the body.

00;33;15;01 - 00;33;16;27
Dr. Holly Ganz
Absolutely.

00;33;16;29 - 00;33;19;14
Chris
I've experienced many of them myself.

00;33;19;16 - 00;33;20;14
Dr. Holly Ganz
Yes, yes.

00;33;20;17 - 00;33;21;07
Kristen
Yes. And

00;33;21;09 - 00;33;38;13
Dr. Holly Ganz
And the when the gut is, you know, not in good shape. Right. We we feel it. So there is a real connection between the gut and the brain. It's not like it's really like when I started going from soil to poop bacteria, I didn't think about I got brain axis, but it actually is really real. And it's what makes sense.

00;33;38;13 - 00;33;43;29
Dr. Holly Ganz
When you're like, you go with your gut or like you feel uneasy. You feel it really viscerally.

00;33;44;02 - 00;33;57;25
Kristen
Yeah. And your company has two really cool, tests. One is doggy biome and one is kitty biome. And these are gut health tests. So how do the tests work? And, what kind of insights to pet parents gain from them?

00;33;57;27 - 00;34;19;10
Dr. Holly Ganz
Yes. So basically it involves taking a small turd pea sized amount of poop and putting it in a tube. We send you, like, gloves and a box. And so and you put the tubes in a little rack and then, I know there's some people still think they're kind of small, but like, we, we, we've sort of feel like we've gotten the best solution that something that can go in the mail.

00;34;19;10 - 00;34;39;29
Dr. Holly Ganz
So you put the poop in the tube, screw the cap on, shake it up, and then when there's two of them, they go in a little tiny Ziploc and then goes into a bubble mailer that you pop in the mail. And then it goes to us and we like scan it. It has a little barcode on it so we can scan it in, and we let you know we received it.

00;34;40;02 - 00;34;58;15
Dr. Holly Ganz
And then we actually are doing our own DNA sequencing in house, which allows us to. So it's it takes a few days to do it, but we're working really hard to try and get people's results as fast as possible. And we promise them within like 1 or 2 weeks, we'll get the results back to you. And then you can look at it in our web app.

00;34;58;15 - 00;35;17;16
Dr. Holly Ganz
And then we also have a PDF report that you can download to share with people. And some of the things that we find are. So there are some pathogens that can flare up like, E.coli is a normal resident and the guide, but it shouldn't be too abundant. If it is, it's really, can be promoting inflammation and cause problems.

00;35;17;18 - 00;35;35;05
Dr. Holly Ganz
So we have a list of, of sort of potential pathogens that we look for that are good to address. And, and for whatever reason, E.coli is not included on diarrhea panels, the standard ones, which it really should be, because everybody thinks it's normal, but it should be. It's normal and very, very small amounts is not normal to be like inflamed.

00;35;35;07 - 00;36;01;11
Dr. Holly Ganz
And then so we sort of look at the pathogen part of it and then some other pathogens like see that for Campylobacter or like sort of known food safety organisms, that can occur. And then we look at core bacteria that are associated with healthy dogs and cats. And we've spent a lot of time looking at healthy samples to try and understand what should a healthy animal have and what does it mean if they're missing it.

00;36;01;13 - 00;36;23;29
Dr. Holly Ganz
And so then we we usually recommend that either they do like a gut restoration program to restore bacteria that may have been killed off from antibiotics, or maybe mom didn't give them their right mix to begin with. Maybe mom had some issues and, but we do know most of the core beneficial gut bacteria are really sensitive to things like antibiotics.

00;36;24;01 - 00;36;35;19
Dr. Holly Ganz
And so it's helpful to restore things after if you animatics for life saving. I'm totally like appreciative of them. We just need to be able to like, build things back up afterwards.

00;36;35;22 - 00;37;00;07
Chris
Yeah. I mean, that's one of the things that I've always picked up, with the antibiotics, for me personally, like, when I take them is I go get, like, a little, like, probiotic pill, right? Right after to try and and rebuild things. So it's great to know that there's options out there for animals. It seems like to, to help them, you know, sort of restore that natural gut bacteria.

00;37;00;09 - 00;37;15;27
Dr. Holly Ganz
That's right. And what we've like in the beginning, like, well, when we first had probiotics that like doctor suggested to go get a probiotic at the one with the most in it. But now we're realize, you know, it depends on which which bacteria in the probiotics. So now they're sort of we're in this place where like all these new things are in development.

00;37;15;29 - 00;37;40;08
Dr. Holly Ganz
And and so we basically the most probiotics are like like like lactobacillus, like yogurt associated bacteria or there's air pockets. FCM is great, but it's like most dogs, even if they're sick, have it already can be useful. But there's we've got some new things coming that are actually like the bacteria in cats and dogs that are that they need that are a bit different.

00;37;40;08 - 00;37;52;12
Dr. Holly Ganz
So I say probiotics a great tool, but they aren't species specific usually, if that makes sense. Like they are. Yeah. They weren't coming from a cat for a cat or a dog for dog.

00;37;52;14 - 00;38;04;19
Kristen
So Doctor Gans, if let's say your your pet is healthy and you want to take some preventative steps to maintain, you know, a healthy gut microbiome in your pet, what what would you recommend?

00;38;04;21 - 00;38;20;21
Dr. Holly Ganz
Well, definitely diet right. We the our diet is foundational to our health. And and that's true for our pets unfortunately like they have to eat what we give them. So it's really on us to make sure that we give them a healthful diet. And it's probably easier to do that for your dog than it is for yourself. At least for me.

00;38;20;21 - 00;38;40;23
Dr. Holly Ganz
That's the case. That's hard to pass on those French fries. Right. But yeah. So avoid the fried foods, right? Too many carbs, is true for dogs too. And cats. So cats are, oddly, a carnivore. So they should be having a high protein diet to sometimes some of the kibbles have a little more carbs than we like, and that can be problematic.

00;38;40;26 - 00;38;59;12
Dr. Holly Ganz
So there are some, like fresh diets. It might be might be good options there. Or canned foods are good options for cats, too, with that tend to have higher amounts of protein. So we tend to think about the macronutrient amounts sometimes, cats and dogs that are fed a raw diet, which is can be very beneficial. Some of them don't have enough fiber in them.

00;38;59;12 - 00;39;08;13
Dr. Holly Ganz
So sometimes we recommend just adding like a quarter teaspoon to the meal of fibers, because that feeds some of these good bacteria.

00;39;08;16 - 00;39;24;05
Chris
Well, great. Doctor Gans, we are coming up on time here, but I want to give you a chance to shout out the website, tell people where they can go, learn more about both, gut health for their animal, for themselves, and learn more about animal biome.

00;39;24;07 - 00;39;48;08
Dr. Holly Ganz
Thank you. Yeah. So you can find out more at animal biome.com. It's like animal animal and then biome.com. And where we have our gut and oral microbiome tests and and supplements that we think are really revolutionary and can really make a big improvement in and especially cats and dogs suffering from digestive as well as skin issues.

00;39;48;11 - 00;39;51;15
Kristen
Fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us today.

00;39;51;17 - 00;39;54;08
Dr. Holly Ganz
Thank you for having me.

00;39;54;11 - 00;39;58;07
Chris
For whatever reason, I'm hungry now.

00;39;58;09 - 00;40;00;11
Kristen
You're geeking out on that science. I know it, I.

00;40;00;11 - 00;40;23;03
Chris
Know I was I was restraining myself. You gotta let the experts preach, cause, you know, it's really something. I don't know much about. I. It's true. I'll take that. That probiotic after a round of antibiotics, because I knew that that was a pro tip. But it was interesting what she said about there being sort of, like, almost like designer probiotics.

00;40;23;03 - 00;40;49;17
Chris
Like, based on what you need, scientists are amazing. Support science. Be a scientist. Don't don't be a podcaster. Be a scientist. The product of the week. All right, Kristen, it's time for the pop up by product of the week. And I think I'll kick things off here with the, this the brand name is Little Chunk, which is hilarious.

00;40;49;19 - 00;41;11;04
Chris
But they are like a, like a hiking, an outdoorsy product type thing. And they've got the little gulp ultimate doggy water bottle, that comes in all these bright colors. It's really it's really fashionable. But what I really like about it is it's, you know, it's one of those ones that you assemble and kind of create, like the little drinking pool that they drink out of.

00;41;11;06 - 00;41;15;00
Chris
But this one has a carbon filter on it. So,

00;41;15;02 - 00;41;15;13
Kristen
Get out.

00;41;15;13 - 00;41;23;02
Chris
You know, because what ends up happening with, like, your standard ones or your, your knockoffs is the dog spit gets into the mix.

00;41;23;05 - 00;41;25;01
Kristen
Right? And then it becomes the bottle.

00;41;25;01 - 00;41;46;13
Chris
Yeah, exactly. And this is designed to kind of prevent that. So the water sort of stays out in the water that goes back and gets refilled, stirred. Only 35 bucks. Really fashionable. Comes with a little hip clip and all that kind of stuff. So, check it out. Check it on out I. The color is definitely what caught my eyes, but, when I saw it was filtered, I was like, wow, that's for 35 bucks.

00;41;46;13 - 00;41;48;29
Chris
That's a pretty good price for a filtered water bottle.

00;41;49;02 - 00;41;53;19
Kristen
Yeah. And I've never seen a filtered water bottle for dogs, so that's really cool.

00;41;53;22 - 00;41;55;10
Chris
Part of the family.

00;41;55;12 - 00;42;19;13
Kristen
Yeah. All right. So I found a new toy for dogs. They're called fireballs and they're from a company called Katie's Bumpers. And what they are is they're kind of tube shaped and they're made from 100% USA made Virgin firehose material. So I guess Virgin firehose material means they haven't fought fires, but I guess it has some extra holes left over.

00;42;19;15 - 00;42;44;03
Kristen
So that's the exterior. And then there's stuffed with, recycled plastic that allows the toy to float. And what's really cool is the way the hose pieces are designed around the cube. It allows you to stuff little treats inside the grooves, so that this can kind of become an enrichment toy for your dog. Also, because it's shaped like a cube, when you toss it, it bounces irregularly, which is really exciting for a dog.

00;42;44;05 - 00;43;05;19
Kristen
So a great, great play toy. It's got squeakers inside and it's super, super durable because of course, it's made of the firehose. So, apparently it, I think I mentioned it floats on water. It's great for, in the snow, in the sand, wherever you play with your dog. And it comes in a small, medium and large size.

00;43;05;25 - 00;43;13;12
Kristen
So check those out. We'll put the link in the show notes to the what I call fireballs, the fire balls.

00;43;13;15 - 00;43;16;15
Chris
This is where you insert the pitbull song.

00;43;16;17 - 00;43;16;24
Dr. Holly Ganz
Yeah.

00;43;16;25 - 00;43;44;14
Chris
Fire bottoms. Yeah, I if I keep going, I'll get sued. Q and A's, we have arrived yet again at my favorite part of the show. That's right. We're going to answer two burning questions from our audience. And I know what you're thinking. How do I get Chris and Kristen's attention? Well, hey, you could either throw tiny little rocks at my window and hold the stereo over your head in the rain?

00;43;44;16 - 00;44;14;27
Chris
Or b you could submit a question. Pets at life.org/podcast. Scroll on down to the bottom of the page. See that beautiful web form powered by HubSpot? Fill that out. Submit your question. And you, you might hear it answered, but here's here's the catch. Here's the catch. If you are feeling as brave as a pet parent handling their pets poop to improve their natural gut health, you can record a voice memo.

00;44;14;27 - 00;44;45;25
Chris
And we'll play your question live on these exact airwaves. But without further ado, I know it's an incredible opportunity that we get to, every now and again, but it's always a treat. So participate. People participate. Let's see. Kristen, I've got a question for you from, Lisa from Boulder. Hi. Lisa asks. My dog is very friendly, but gets overly excited and jumps on guests when they come over.

00;44;45;27 - 00;44;58;28
Chris
I've tried telling him off and rewarding him when he sits, but he still gets too excited and forgets his manners. What is the best way to train him to calmly greet people without jumping all over them?

00;44;59;01 - 00;45;17;04
Kristen
Yeah, this is a really great question, Lisa. And it's a common problem. Matter of fact, I was watching. I was on TikTok last night scrolling through some training videos, and there was a dog trainer talking about this very issue. So good timing. So first of all, it's a good idea to keep your dog on a leash when guests arrive.

00;45;17;04 - 00;45;37;12
Kristen
That's going to give you the most control. While you are kind of retraining your dog not to jump, they're jumping up on you because people usually, you know, instinctively reach down and pet the dog. But some people really don't like when they when they're being jumped on by a dog, obviously. So try the leash. You can even consider using a baby gate to prevent the dog from getting to the person.

00;45;37;12 - 00;46;03;25
Kristen
But I like the leash idea better because then you can kind of control them. Jumping up. And then also you want to kind of practice this, this whole four paws on the floor rule for your dog. So you only and the best way to do this is to enlist a friend or a neighbor to help you train your dog so that the friend or neighbor comes over and they have some treats in their pocket, and they should not treat the dog until he or she stops jumping up on them.

00;46;03;29 - 00;46;22;28
Kristen
Just ignore completely. Ignore them. Talk. You know, have have your neighbor talk to you. Just the dog will feel ignored and the minute the dog feels ignored and stops jumping up, then she can treat him or her. So that's going to take some time. But I think it helps to enlist a friend or a neighbor because you could do this yourself.

00;46;23;00 - 00;46;39;27
Kristen
But your dog is going to get a different kind of excited when a guest comes over. So give that a try. You can obviously, you know, talk to a dog trainer or even your vet might have some tips for you. But, but you really want to reward the good behavior and ignore the bad behavior.

00;46;39;27 - 00;46;52;20
Kristen
Sometimes just saying off or no, they're still getting attention. So they kind of see that as a positive in a weird way. But that's just how they think sometimes. So so good luck with that.

00;46;52;22 - 00;46;58;28
Chris
That is a great answer, Chris. And I think our, guest in would be, quite proud of you for that one.

00;46;58;28 - 00;47;02;15
Kristen
Oh, I hope so.

00;47;02;17 - 00;47;04;24
Chris
All right. What do you got for me?

00;47;04;27 - 00;47;07;05
Kristen
Oh, sorry, Chris.

00;47;07;05 - 00;47;07;18
Chris
It's all.

00;47;07;18 - 00;47;09;16
Kristen
Right, I forgot, I forgot.

00;47;09;16 - 00;47;11;17
Chris
It's okay, I forgot to.

00;47;11;19 - 00;47;32;10
Kristen
All right. So, Chris, this question comes from Daniel in Seattle. Daniel says my dog gets really excited in the car. He whines pants and sometimes even refuses to get in the car. I want to be able to take him on more road trips and make the experience enjoyable for him. So what are some of the ways I can help him feel more comfortable and relaxed during car rides?

00;47;32;12 - 00;48;02;27
Chris
Yeah, that's a great question. And, my answer is pretty similar to Kristen's, about the training. It's it's a very similar, concept where you want the car ride to feel enjoyable, and like they're getting rewarded and not like a punishment. But other than that, I would say make it comfortable. You know, I think a lot of people default to putting their dog in the back seat, but backseats are built for humans.

00;48;02;27 - 00;48;24;00
Chris
They're not really built, for pets. So if you've got an SUV where the seats can go down sometimes, like a dog bed in the back of the trunk is better for the pet than the pet seats. Try and position them in ways where they can see out the window. That will help with motion sickness. And, dogs.

00;48;24;00 - 00;48;52;16
Chris
Just like looking outside, don't they? And of course, there are all sorts of both. Natural and chemical products that you could give your dog. I would start with the natural, some of these things to help alleviate motion sickness. And my guess most, because most dogs kind of like the car because it's an adventure. They know they're going someplace, and and it's probably going to be fun for them unless it's the vet, in which case they feel betrayed.

00;48;52;18 - 00;49;12;21
Chris
But it I my my guess without knowing any other context, is that the dog has motion sickness and the dog doesn't feel good when it's in the car, so it doesn't want to go in the car. So if you can make up for that with some treats, if you can find a way to limit that motion sickness, you might find a change in behavior.

00;49;12;24 - 00;49;32;19
Kristen
Excellent answer. That's exactly what I was thinking, Chris. First thing that came to mind was motion sickness. I wrote an article about this last year, and 40% of dogs actually experienced motion sickness and a lot of times we as dog parents don't recognize it as that because you're vomiting, but you don't. Your dog doesn't have to vomit to be feeling really crappy.

00;49;32;19 - 00;49;34;16
Kristen
If they have motion sickness.

00;49;34;18 - 00;49;54;12
Chris
And same with people when you think about it. I can't remember the last time I threw up for motion sickness, but I mean, I had it yesterday like so. You know, it's just, I'm, I'm. If I'm not dry, if I'm not driving, it's over for me. It's. I'll get motion sickness just from being in the car.

00;49;54;14 - 00;50;03;14
Chris
So. Yeah. No, it that's what you gotta. You gotta teach your dog how to drive, because let the dog drive. It won't get motions.

00;50;03;18 - 00;50;05;14
Kristen
And that'll take care of that.

00;50;05;16 - 00;50;24;12
Chris
Oh my God. Yeah, that that we got to end the show. I just told somebody they should let their dog drive their SUV. We got to end the show there before. Before we get, sued by Pitbull and by Kia. Whoever else is going to sue us now, for the thing he's saying. This podcast. Thanks for sticking with us.

00;50;24;14 - 00;50;40;12
Chris
This has been the Pal podcast. We we're here every Tuesday. We're all over social media. Drop us a follow find us on dog TV and their new Amazon Fast channel. All that great stuff that you all should be doing as our viewers. And if you're not, I don't know, man, I guess.

00;50;40;18 - 00;50;41;23
Kristen
Step it out.

00;50;41;26 - 00;50;49;29
Chris
Yeah, step it up. And we'll be back here next Tuesday. So until then, be kind to yourself. Be kind to your animals. We'll see you in a week.

00;50;50;01 - 00;50;53;11
Kristen
No bones about it. We'll see you next week.

00;50;53;14 - 00;50;55;00
Chris
No bones about it.