48. Enlightening Journeys in Pet Training and History

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Chris
Pets add life. Your guide to the latest in pet trends, products and the joy of the human animal bond with Christian Levine and Chris Bowen, a fan powered by the American Pet Products Association and Dog TV.

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Chris
Hi, and welcome back to another episode of Pets and Life, the Podcast. I'm Chris Hardy, joined as always by the gracious and giving Christian living Christian.

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Chris
How are we doing today?

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Kristen
Oh, I'm doing great. I'm doing great. And you always have such a lovely, intro for me. So I came up with one for you. You are here with me is our clever, charismatic cat dad from Connecticut.

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Chris
Oh, that's a lot to see. And I, you know, I do like I do like to say, hey, I got a little joke for you.

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Kristen
Whoa. Okay.

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Chris
What is a pirate's favorite letter? You think it's. But a pirate's first love is the sea.

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Kristen
I don't, you got me.

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Chris
You got me. But, hey, listen, we're celebrating, National Dog training Month. That is January. I didn't know that Kristen knew that because she's aware of everything and all knowing. And basically, it's omnipotent when it comes to these special.

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Kristen
Things about that.

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Chris
So we've got a really awesome, dog training oriented episode for you guys.

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Kristen
This we do got some really interesting guests. You're going to love them. And, I'm excited about my product and my story today. How about you?

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Chris
Yeah. Excited. Why not? Why not be excited? Why not? Why not be, just, you know, waiting with bated breath for the show to get on, right? I mean, it's just it's just going to be another thriller here. And listen, if you're not watching us, you should be. We're available on dog TV. We're available on YouTube.

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Chris
You can be watching us. We got this, this beautiful overlay that our producer. Yeah, they're really eye catching stuff. And if you're not already following us on social media, you can follow Pat's ad life Everywhere except TikTok. Because unless they just banned it just banned it. So rip tick tock, tick tock, tick tock, tick tock tick. Those other Chinese apps don't do.

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Kristen
Yeah, please. No.

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Chris
Don't do that. Just go to Instagram like the rest of us. And hey, without further ado, let's get into this episode. Let's go. Kristen and Chris present story time.

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Kristen
All right. Chris, story time. Would you like to go first today?

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Chris
Sure. Yeah. Let's let's get off, my story, because if you're if you're excited by yours, I'm not excited to share mine, but I think it's important. As everybody knows, some wildfires have really, run rampant through Los Angeles County, affecting, hundreds of thousands of people. And while there are plenty of resources out there to help, either feed or house or, resettle, people, as being an animal oriented podcast, I wanted to make people aware, the situation with pets.

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Chris
And actually just got off a call with some of my colleagues, one of which works in LA, and got some good news that they're shelter saying we don't need anymore foster parents. You.

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Kristen
Know.

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Chris
Oh, good. Thank you for all the outpouring of support. But there are, a few resources that I wanted to make people aware of. The Pasadena Humane Society is the designated evacuation center, for the eating fire, with LA Animal Services coordinating their efforts with the Cal Fire Department. So basically, if they're finding any, displaced pets, they're going to be over at the Pasadena Humane Society.

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Chris
Humane society, of course, accepting donations of both product and, cash money, to help feed and, rehabilitate, pay for the vet bills for, these animals who were impacted.

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Kristen
Yeah. Let's drop the link to that in the show notes.

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Chris
Yeah. Anybody.

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Kristen
Who wants a.

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Chris
Link, this is an LA. I'm getting this off of, an LA based news source. There's going to be quite a few different links. So we'll put the link to this article, which has all the links to these, these places in there. LA Animal Services is where you can go to sign up as a foster. So if you're in the LA or surrounding area, if you're further inland, and you want to either foster some of the displaced animals, or animals who are strays and need rehabilitation, contact LA Animal Services and they will be able to help you get started.

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Chris
And then just a few shout outs to some, rescues and other organizations that I've seen on socials doing some really great work. Boomer's buddies rescues, has been working really hard to save, cats in the area. Cats, obviously, don't react to fire. Well, arguably worse than dogs. They tend to just sort of, stay in place and really need saving.

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Chris
While dogs tend to flee. So, shout out to, buddies. Close critter care has been helping, rescue small animals. Hamsters, ferrets, etc. and then Viva Rescue has been credited with saving more than 350 animals in the burn zone. So shout out to those amazing organizations. And from all of us here at, the Pets and life organization, APA and dog TV.

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Chris
Just wishing everybody affected in LA the best. We are with you in these incredibly trying times.

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Kristen
Absolutely. And I know a lot of folks want to help out, so, yeah, we'll have those links in the show notes, but I did want to mention, too, that, a lot of the stories I've seen on the news are about, shelter pets that have been flown to, north, you know, cities north of LA. And my neighbor was confused about that.

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Kristen
She thought they were pets that had been discovered, you know, after the fire. But those pets that are being relocated are actually pets that were up for adoption in the LA area. Shelters and they evacuated those to make room for all the evacuees. So we're not they're not moving out animals that whose, you know, families might be looking for them, but, yes, hearts, hearts and prayers going.

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Annie
Out to all of you.

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Chris
All right. I'm hoping you have a follow up that.

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Kristen
Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to lighten the mood a little bit. Now.

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Chris
Sugar after medicine, please.

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Kristen
Okay. Well, you remember back in, 2024, we interviewed Melinda Thomas of Pets in the classroom? Yes. And she told us all about this incredible program. Well, I just learned that they were awarded. Let's see, what's it called? By the US Department of Education for their innovative approach to Stem education. And I think most people know what Stem stands for.

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Kristen
But if you don't, it stands for science, technology, engineering and mathematics. And it's basically an educational approach that integrates those four disciplines, to give students, you know, a practical, real world learning experiences. And the pets in the classroom program was awarded because they recognize how the programs and the pets together are helping the kids learn things like biology by observing the pet behaviors and cycle life cycles.

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Kristen
They are learning more about math by doing simple, simple calculations of pet care costs. And they study environmental science by understanding these animals habitats and also have hands on experience to help develop critical thinking and problem solving skills. So shout out to pets in the classroom for for being recognized. And I think we most of us already know this, that pets aren't just great companions, they're also great teachers too.

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Kristen
And, good to hear that they're enhancing the Stem education.

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Chris
Yeah, I love pets in the classroom. It's one of, my favorite organizations that APA supports. I've always been really, proud of the work that they do. I even have a few friends who've taken advantage of the grants. They're, awesome teachers in elementary and middle school and have gotten grants to have, bearded dragons or turtles and things like that in their classrooms.

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Chris
So I think it's just a really cool thing. Beyond the leash exploring the untold stories of pet passion and professionals. Joining us now a rare treat. Othello. Chris. It's Chris Pearson, a distinguished professor of environmental history at the University of Liverpool and an expert in human animal relationships. As the author of the critically acclaimed book Collard How We Made the Modern Dog, he delves into the captivating history of our bond with dogs, from their roles as hardworking companions to their transformation into pampered family members, Collard Sheds Lights sheds light on how changing societal norms, dog breeding and urbanization have shaped the modern dog's life.

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Chris
Chris. His research is both thought provoking and rich with surprising insights exploring themes such as the rise of dog breeds, the role of dogs in 20th century conflicts, and even how dogs helped clean up urban environments in the past. That is a amazing Smorgon Forward board of work, and we are so, happy to welcome Chris. So, Chris, how's it going?

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Chris
How's the other side of the pond over there?

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Chris (Guest)
Yeah, great. Great to meet you. And thanks for having me. Yeah. It's good. It's a bit cold, but it's winter. It's Britain. That's how it rolls.

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Chris
And that's. That is simply how it is. So, first off, I want to tackle your work, collared. And specifically the historical shift from dogs, being workers, to companions. So I know there's a lot of history and evolution that's squeezed in between there, but is there a particular, moment or maybe a sliver of history, that you could call out where that transformation really becomes apparent?

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Chris
Where those dogs really turned into pets?

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Chris (Guest)
Yeah, definitely. So for most of human canine history, dogs, as you said, to work as they were hunters, they were guard dogs. They herded livestock. And pets were only a very, very small minority. But in the 19th century, in Britain, mainly a group of breeders, whether that was the working class so-called dog fancy who would fight dogs, but also, breed dogs for display all the more upper crust, upper class, breeders of the Kennel Club.

00;10;50;28 - 00;11;24;23
Chris (Guest)
They they started to prized dogs more for how they looked and for their lineage and how they worked. So that's that big shift in the, in the 19th century. And I think there's one dog that really, that really encapsulates that. And that is the term spit dog. These were small dogs who basically were in big kitchens, either pub or tavern kitchens or in stately homes, and it was their job to go around in a little wooden wheel which would, which would turn the meat as the meat cooked.

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Chris (Guest)
They were the term spit dogs. They looked from what observers say they they looked unhappy. Unsurprisingly, and they were they weren't the nicest to look at, but they did perform important function. But eventually machines came along that could replace the term spit dog, and the term spit dog didn't cut it. In the new world of exotic, often exotic, prized pedigree dogs.

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Chris (Guest)
So the term spit dog went extinct. So I think that really sums up this moment in the late 18th century, early 19th century, when dogs went from being workers to being in the West at least prize for being pets and pedigrees.

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Kristen
Wow, that's really interesting. So, Chris, you write about how dogs reflect changing societal values and behaviors. Can you give us an example of maybe the surprising historical role that dogs have played in helping to shape the culture?

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Chris (Guest)
Yeah, absolutely. That's, that's a really good question. I think one way to really think about that is how dogs ability to to sniff and to track transform from their being hunters into being police and army dogs. And, there's a history here which just shows how how culture has changed and how it hasn't changed, of how these dogs were used in the Caribbean and the American South to track down enslaved people, who had escaped the plantations.

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Chris (Guest)
That was, in the Caribbean and the, the, the southern United States. Then in, the early 20th century, British, American and European city dogs were used to track down, criminals, in Paris, some of the criminals were called Apaches because they seem to be like, Native Americans who would who would attack, Parisians. I would say it's not a very respectful name.

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Chris (Guest)
But anyway, police dogs were used to, to track down these gangs. And nowadays as well, we have dogs who are being used to, sniff out drugs, sniff out explosives, and also, track down people. So you can really see how the dogs ability to sniff out amazing noses, how that has adapted to to various cultural and historical moments.

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Chris
Yeah. You know, talking about dogs, adapting, humans obviously went from, living a nomadic lifestyle to settling down and eventually building villages. And now we live in these modern urban settings. So what do you think is the biggest challenge for dogs living in cities today? And how can we, as owners help them adapt since, you know, they came from the wild as well?

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Chris (Guest)
Yeah. Great question. I think that's something we're struggling with, to, to really think through. So yeah, I mean, and this goes back to the 19th century when a lot of people worried that pet dogs, many of whom were working breeds from the countryside, they worried how how they would adapt to the countryside. Could you have, say, a Labrador in your flats?

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Chris (Guest)
Could you have, a husky in your house in the city? These, you know, big dogs, working dogs, and in many ways, dogs did it that well to city environments particularly, I would say street dogs. So these were dogs who lived semi-independent lives from humans. They were allowed to, well, they roamed around the streets, often just sleeping, eating, scavenging foods.

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Chris (Guest)
They were known to hang around markets and butchers. So they performed, a function in the city. They they ate waste and they were also companions. But nowadays in cities, dogs live very, very, closeted lives. They, expected to spend a lot of time at home with lockdowns, with Covid, people were at home a lot with the dogs.

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Chris (Guest)
Maybe that's great for dogs, but now a lot of people come back to work, back to school. The dogs are alone a lot, a lot more. So they, suffer from separation anxiety. Cities as well. On the streets is not often a lot of green space, so dogs don't have space to run. So we've created these, these urban environments, which are great.

00;15;58;16 - 00;16;21;29
Chris (Guest)
I'm not anti city cities are cities are great. Dogs are great. But sometimes there are these problems with them. And if you go back to the the United States in the 1970s, a lot was going on in Baltimore and Maryland. And this was where, there were a lot of street dogs basically at the time. And there was, an ecologist called Alan Beck.

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Chris (Guest)
Hey, study the dogs. And he then went to work in New York, in the coming days at the exact bit of New York government. Anyway, it's a New York City. And he was fascinated by by street dogs, but also concerned that they were causing problems in the city with dog mess, barking, attacking people, getting in the way, all these things.

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Chris (Guest)
So since the 1970s has been, an even tighter crackdown, on street dogs, on loose dogs, and of course, everyone's favorite topic, dog fouling. The owners are now expected to to scoop the poop, which, first came in in, New York in 1978. Yeah. So owners, that dogs have adapted, more or less, sometimes less to, to city life.

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Kristen
Yeah. Well, speaking of street dogs, a lot of the countries still have, commonly have street dogs. You're currently researching the lives of Indian street dogs. So what unique insights to be gained from the study and how did their experiences differ from those of pet dogs, say, here in in the States?

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Chris (Guest)
What really stands out, I think, is how in the West we often think about, yeah, dogs as pets on leads, within the home. But actually that's a minority of dogs. Most dogs in the world, are street dogs. And what the research, that we're the team is doing in India is finding is that, street dogs have a a long history of living in Indian cities in the countryside.

00;18;03;09 - 00;18;29;05
Chris (Guest)
Sometimes they've been attacked by humans. But very often they've been cared for, supported, by by people, throughout India. And, there's some there's some great research that one of our, students is doing in the Himalayan village, and he's just really showing how in the marketplace of this village, street dogs, humans, live side by side.

00;18;29;18 - 00;18;47;08
Chris (Guest)
Humans care for dogs, feed the dogs, dogs provides companionship. And it's just a really fascinating multi-species story that is, that's unfolding and that's being that's taking place across the world. And we've kind of lost that in the West.

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Chris
Yeah. This is all, absolutely fascinating stuff. But before we let you go here, Professor Pearson, if if people want to learn more, you know, we have plenty of listeners who are of curious nature if they want to jump in and either, find some resources on the history between, you know, man and dog or if they want to hear from you, is there anywhere that they could head to to find out more?

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Chris (Guest)
Yeah, absolutely. So, I've got a blog called Sniffing the Past. I. Write this up in 2011. And the formatting, I've got to say, if you want to see what, a WordPress blog was like 15 years ago, go to Sniffing the Past, but also know some great stuff about both, if I say so myself. Written by myself, but also from, history, animal historians, dog historians, well, humans who study dogs rather than dogs actually being historians themselves.

00;19;49;15 - 00;20;11;05
Chris (Guest)
So on the market, you can check out some things there. There's also the book that you mentioned, the collars. And also, if you go on to either the Google or the Apple app stores, there's an app called Sniffing the Past, which is a interactive, app that helps you explore history of dogs in London, New York and Paris.

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Kristen
Wow, that's really.

00;20;12;20 - 00;20;13;14
Chris (Guest)
Cool things.

00;20;13;19 - 00;20;17;00
Chris
Yeah, that is a what a great answer to my question.

00;20;17;10 - 00;20;26;28
Kristen
Awesome. Thank you so much, professor. This has been very enlightening and I can't wait to get my hands on your book. And I'm just definitely going to check out the sniff blog, too.

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Chris (Guest)
Thanks. Very nice. Thanks so much.

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Kristen
Thank you.

00;20;29;23 - 00;20;31;05
Chris
For.

00;20;31;07 - 00;20;34;14
Chris (Guest)
Thank you.

00;20;34;16 - 00;20;48;28
Chris
I'm. I'm buying a plane ticket. I mean, rolling in classes at the University of Liverpool. And I'm going to find Chris Pearson at the local pub. I'm going to buy him many beers and he is going to regale me with tales of greyhounds.

00;20;49;00 - 00;20;52;00
Kristen
He was fascinating and I have so many more questions.

00;20;52;01 - 00;20;52;17
Chris
Yeah, I feel.

00;20;52;17 - 00;20;54;00
Kristen
Like maybe we can have him back on the show.

00;20;54;01 - 00;21;04;25
Chris
We barely tapped into it. Right. Like, I feel I, you know, when you talk to somebody, you steal the knowledge using out of them. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we barely scratched this. We're just not ever happy.

00;21;04;25 - 00;21;05;11
Kristen
A little tiny.

00;21;05;11 - 00;21;18;24
Chris
Bit. Yeah. Yeah, I think we're going to we're going to find a way to either speak with Chris or one of his colleagues again in the future, because that was a really cool thing. Pets add life.

00;21;18;26 - 00;21;57;12
Kristen
Well, it is National Train Your Dog Month in January, so what better guests could we have than a fabulous dog trainer? Her name is Andy Grossman and she is a certified pet dog trainer and she has many credentials, in her, in her portfolio. She's. This is really interesting. She's a journalist turned dog trainer and the owner of school for the Dogs in Manhattan's East Village, with a career that bridges storytelling and science and has redefined how we think about dog trading, she's the author of the critically acclaimed How to Train Your Dog with Love and Science, and she hosts a podcast of the same name.

00;21;57;12 - 00;22;20;16
Kristen
So definitely check the book out and the podcast, In her work, Annie dismantles outdated training methods that are rooted in coercion and force, replacing them with a compassionate, science based approach. Now, her book not only provides actionable steps for dog training, but also explores a fascinating history of positive reinforcement, offering insights that benefit both pets and their humans.

00;22;20;16 - 00;22;22;00
Kristen
Welcome, Annie.

00;22;22;03 - 00;22;24;20
Annie
Hello! My dog just hopped on my lap too.

00;22;24;26 - 00;22;26;08
Kristen
Oh, we love that show.

00;22;26;08 - 00;22;27;17
Chris
We susceptible on the palate.

00;22;27;24 - 00;22;33;26
Kristen
Oh, look, I was to be Poppy. Did you train her to do that?

00;22;33;29 - 00;22;35;19
Annie
I trained her to love me.

00;22;35;22 - 00;22;46;00
Kristen
Oh, I love it, I love it. What's her name? This is Poppy. Hi, Poppy. Welcome to the show, Poppy. Welcome to the show. We're going to interview your mom here.

00;22;46;01 - 00;22;48;01
Annie
I mean, that was such a lovely introduction.

00;22;48;20 - 00;23;02;16
Kristen
Well, you earned it. So let me just start off the questions with asking you how, like, what inspired you to go from journalism into the world of dog training, and how did you develop your science based approach for school, for the dogs?

00;23;02;18 - 00;23;22;14
Annie
You know, I was really just sort of fishing around for a new career. What could I what could I do that seemed like it'd be fun and I could make my own schedule, but that would be maybe more straightforward than trying to sell stories to magazines and newspapers. And it's funny because I ended up creating something way more complicated, which is a small business.

00;23;23;20 - 00;23;55;19
Annie
But, I really knew nothing about dog training. I was just like, that sounds like a fun career. And I ended up signing up for, a six month program at the Karen Pryor Academy. And, just sort of fell in love with the fact that, there is a technology to how you can teach animals and that there is there are laws of learning and sort of the whole process of watching, watching my dog learn and the process of developing my skills to train them using this.

00;23;55;22 - 00;24;03;22
Annie
The science and technology based approach just appealed to me so much and really made me see the whole world kind of a new sort of made me see like, oh.

00;24;03;25 - 00;24;04;22
Kristen
Like, this is how.

00;24;04;22 - 00;24;31;14
Annie
Behavior works and my behavior is being impacted by forces beyond me. So what I found was something that interested me even more than dogs in particular interested me. But that, as a writer, I realized it was a kind of cool way to introduce people to the science. By by sort of showing people how they can train, with, with their, with the, the, the, the lab subjects we have in our living rooms.

00;24;31;16 - 00;24;32;07
Chris
This freak out.

00;24;32;10 - 00;24;33;00
Kristen
Yeah.

00;24;33;00 - 00;24;50;25
Chris
That's so my favorite, science based television shows. The MythBusters. And I believe in your book, you go about busting several dog training myths. So what's the science show us? And what what kind of stuff, have you proven is just not as is your method?

00;24;50;28 - 00;25;13;03
Annie
I wouldn't say that I've necessarily proven anything myself, although I've done lots of experimenting. But, you know, I think the world of dog training has been really so sort of caught up in static. That has to do with dominance and, like, power structures, which is as humans, how we very much organize the world. Right?

00;25;13;03 - 00;25;42;27
Annie
Look at religion. And in the military, we sort of we have these structures and often we, we are used to taking on kind of like top down approach to solving problems. And in the last, you know, few decades, we've certainly seen that on TV shows like The Dog Whisperer, which is when I talk a lot about in the book, where that sort of coupled with sort of dominance, you know, like, you know, make the dog obey because I'm bigger and stronger.

00;25;43;13 - 00;26;08;14
Annie
Approach, also covered with kind of the dust of myth having to do with, you know, dogs, like wolf behavior, like conflating wolf behavior and dog behavior and considering the behavior of animals, you know, in captivity to the animals that are living and loving spaces in our homes. And a lot of that that makes for good, dogs barking ever.

00;26;08;20 - 00;26;39;07
Annie
I think a lot, a lot of it makes for good TV. And, and people like the idea that certain people have a certain ability to with dogs. And, you know, we're born with an ability to speak to dogs, where I think all of that is a load of hooey. Let's say, I don't think anyone is. You might be born with certain tendencies to be able to select behavior you want, and reward that behavior with really good timing and structure, environments where your animal, whatever your subject animal is, is going to be, better set up for learning.

00;26;39;07 - 00;27;03;26
Annie
But I don't think anyone born with the kind of innate doggedness that someone like The Dog Whisperer, you know, claims that he has. And that's one thing that's really cool about dog training is I do think it's something anyone can learn. But it involves sort of wiping away some of this misinformation, which, you know, the problem with punishment based training and dominance based training is that of course it can work.

00;27;03;29 - 00;27;40;06
Annie
At least it can work in the moment. And, there's no shortage of, of punishment based training that, that you can find online that effective at least in the time of a YouTube clip or an episode of TV. But the problem is, you know, the fallout from that can be really deleterious and unpredictable. And we can, use sort of like, a much sharper scalpel to carve out the behaviors we want and make it less likely we're not going to get behaviors we don't want using, reward based, science based approach.

00;27;40;08 - 00;27;59;02
Kristen
Yeah. So and another way to think of it then would be you're going to get more predictable outcomes with, positive reinforcement and, and for, for our listeners, I mean, I think we all know what positive reinforcement training means, generally speaking. But can you break it down? Yeah, yeah. You know what it entails.

00;27;59;04 - 00;28;20;07
Annie
Positive reinforcement, I also think is often misunderstood as like, just be nice to your dog. You know, the positive. The positive sounds like, you know, not that hard stars and flowers are actually the positive in the term. Positive reinforcement refers to the fact that something is being added to the equation in order to encourage the likelihood of behaviors going to happen again.

00;28;20;07 - 00;28;46;11
Annie
So there's two parts of it. The reinforcement is encouraging of the behavior. And the positive part is that you're adding something to the equation. And you could positive. The thing is like there's a technique to it because you could certainly positive reinforce behaviors you don't like all day long and get a lot more of those behaviors. And you could even be doing something that you think is punitive, that, you know, you could be yelling at your dog.

00;28;46;27 - 00;29;20;11
Annie
I mean, and your dog is actually being positively reinforced. By the yelling, which you can tell if the behavior keeps happening again. And the, the other side of the spectrum, if you're wanting to reinforce and encourage a behavior is actually negative reinforcement or you're taking something away in order to encourage, behavior. And, you know, one example of that is like there's a method of teaching, a dog to drop it by, like, giving them an electric shock or stimulation, until they drop the thing.

00;29;20;11 - 00;29;48;21
Annie
Right? That the dropping the thing makes the painful thing go away. And that's, technically speaking, negative reinforcement. And then you have punishment. And punishment is discouraging behavior. But when you're discouraged, judging a behavior, you very well might also be helping your dog make an association. That was not what you predicted. In the book, I talk about an example of a, a trainer is that we call a crossover trainer who used to use like punishments and was called balanced techniques.

00;29;48;21 - 00;30;14;14
Annie
And now, works to incorporate smart positive reinforcement like the dog training as much as possible in her work. She had a dog who, she she used an electric collar on a few times at a training facility, before she decided it wasn't right for this dog in this situation. And the dog, ended up developing a fear of rubber mats because the facility had rubber mats on the ground.

00;30;14;17 - 00;30;34;06
Annie
And, you know, just after, you know, being shocked, what we would probably say was not I shouldn't have heard it. It wasn't very big shock or whatever. But for that dog, it was enough, to make an association that rubber mats are a scary thing to step on, so you never know. I mean, and that was just an instance where the person figured it out, but you never know what connections your dog is going to make.

00;30;34;06 - 00;30;49;02
Annie
And because we're asking them to, like, live in our world, I think we can do them the favor of, trying to make them feel good about things we want them to feel feel good about, rather than risking that we're going to make them them scared of something that's going to be hard to undo.

00;30;49;04 - 00;31;17;27
Chris
So, Andy, before we let you go here, we have, likely guests coming out of the holidays. We probably have a lot of brand new dog owners who just got some animals for the holidays and have realized out in over their head, they truly are. Do you have any advice for overwhelmed new pet parents on where to start, or how to take what honestly is a complicated task?

00;31;17;27 - 00;31;22;19
Chris
Training your dog is complicated. And make it simple and more manageable.

00;31;22;21 - 00;31;47;09
Annie
Well, read my book. Right. Well, yeah, I, I wrote, I, I have been a professional dog trainer for over a decade and so much of the time so that I would meet people during a first session, I really wanted to give them a big picture overview of how to even just think about training in a way that then you can kind of make your own choices and if necessary, find a coach, find a professional who can coach you.

00;31;47;16 - 00;32;04;27
Annie
But you're going to be better at being coached if you have or if you're, like, facing in the right direction. But one small thing is like lower your criteria in the book I have I what I call criterion zero. Like just start with rewarding your dog basically for existing in your home, because we're asking a lot of them all the time.

00;32;05;05 - 00;32;27;21
Annie
And when you think about it like we're basically asking them to coexist in this home that they didn't ask to be in with people who are four times their size and don't speak their language. So I think, we can do them the favor of helping them at least learn to feel good about all the things around them, and then start selecting specific behaviors that we want, rather than focusing early on on, like my dog nipping me or my dogs crying.

00;32;27;21 - 00;32;47;02
Annie
And I want to get rid of that behavior. Focus on how you can just get them feeling good about the world, even if sometimes they're maybe doing stuff you don't really like, because ultimately what you're doing is like setting the stage for, better learning in the future and less likelihood of fear based behaviors to happen. And, you know, most aggression and stuff dogs do that we don't like stems from fear.

00;32;47;08 - 00;33;06;15
Kristen
So great, great advice. And definitely check out Annie's book, How to Train Your Dog with Love and Science. Annie, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you. And, yeah, I love how you broke down the the really the definition of positive reinforcement. I learned I learned a few things today.

00;33;06;17 - 00;33;07;27
Annie
Right. Well, glad to hear it.

00;33;07;29 - 00;33;14;09
Kristen
Yeah. Yeah. You can really tell that Annie is a former journalist.

00;33;14;12 - 00;33;14;23
Chris
Yes.

00;33;14;27 - 00;33;28;20
Kristen
She's done a lot of research and had some really interesting insights. I never realized that positive positive reinforcement, the positive is the adding something to the equation and the reinforcement is the positivity.

00;33;28;22 - 00;34;03;08
Chris
Yeah, it's crazy how much time and effort and research and diligence has gone into. I'm going to call it the art of dog training. Absolutely. You know what? What a knowledgeable person with so much knowledge on this podcast. It's crazy. It's crazy. We've got we've got the biggest, brightest, most, well studied and published people out here. For you, dear listeners, to listen to it honestly for Chris and Kristen as well, it's been a very informative one.

00;34;03;10 - 00;34;09;18
Unknown
The book I'm a product of the week. And it's time for our.

00;34;09;25 - 00;34;17;02
Chris
Pop up products of the week. And I'm going to toss it right on over to you, Kristen. What do you got for us?

00;34;17;04 - 00;34;59;15
Kristen
Okay. Well, as you know, the CES, exhibition was in Las Vegas a couple of weeks ago. Stands for a consumer Electronics Show. It's a massive trade show. You see it on the news in early January, usually, where all these new, consumer tech products are, are launched. And a pet product, one, one of the, one of the innovator Awards, it's called pet Port, and it's basically revolutionizing the way we see pet doors, like the doggie door, the kitty door, and some of the highlights are that it takes if you have an existing cat door or, or a doggy door, it will create a new smart entry way that you can

00;34;59;15 - 00;35;20;04
Kristen
control from your phone, so you can fit this smart door right over the existing opening of your current door. Or maybe a new door. It comes with an app, of course, that lets you schedule, when the door can be opened, when your dog can go in and out, it allows you to track your pet's activity and get notifications, which I think is so cool.

00;35;20;04 - 00;35;39;17
Kristen
Like, you can, you know, get a little notification that your dog just ran out to go potty. It also has a nightlight. I love this, it's an LED light that helps guide your pets. Nice. And it comes with a lot of different stylish finishes to match your home's decor. So from what I understand, this is going to be great.

00;35;39;18 - 00;36;00;29
Kristen
It's not available yet, but you can preorder it, so obviously it's going to help pet parents have more control over their pets outdoor access. Anybody concerned about security or unwanted animals getting in through a pet door, it's going to put a stop to that. And, if you have multiple pets in your homes, you can set different schedules for those different animals.

00;36;00;29 - 00;36;25;22
Kristen
So pretty cool. And you can let's see if you sign up on passport.com, you can preorder. And they're going to give you a discount between 75 and $150 towards your purchase. So this must be kind of a pricey item if your discount is 75 to $150. But for some of you, you might want to check it out.

00;36;25;25 - 00;36;27;28
Chris
At classic CDs.

00;36;28;01 - 00;36;28;10
Kristen
Right?

00;36;28;12 - 00;36;52;10
Chris
Cool cutting edge product. I like the little lighthouse idea, you know, to guide them back home. I'm just hoping that the lighthouse doesn't come with, Willem Dafoe and Robert Pattinson inside of it. A few less than ideal. I product my pop up product of the week is way less tech savvy, though, goes hand in hand with a lot of the stuff we were talking about.

00;36;52;12 - 00;37;16;10
Chris
Man, I want to say 1 or 2 months ago when we're talking about sort of Cat and Richmond. Creating a, a space in your home that is both esthetically pleasing and, healthy and beneficial for the cats. So this is from I'm a cat. I believe I'm pronouncing that properly a cat. And they have these really simple, at least in my opinion.

00;37;16;10 - 00;37;41;29
Chris
Simple to install, wall cabinets that you could, sort of put up against the wall. It seems like, from my understanding, it gets sort of, gets drywall anchored with three screws directly into your wall. They are hexagonal in shape, and I had to double check to make sure that that was the right term for a, a two dimensional object with six sides.

00;37;41;29 - 00;38;06;07
Chris
Yes, yes, they're hexagonal in shape, and sort of have, openings on, the front face and then the four sort of, sides. And the picture they have on the website sort of has two of them, staggered up like a staircase wall, like a raised staircase goes up and, they have a cushion inside and also on top.

00;38;06;09 - 00;38;25;13
Chris
And you could just very clearly see how a cat would be able to climb and weave its way through and sort of jump, up towards the top of the stairs and from the top of the stairs, back down, through this sort of little system, instead of using the stairs and price, it's it's a two pack.

00;38;25;23 - 00;38;47;08
Chris
Set of two natural wood, a beautiful, natural looking wood. Looks like a cedar or an oak, though I am no, our biologist, only runs you 120 bucks. So that I think that's a pretty good deal. For something made of wood. If you have that sort of esthetic going on in your home.

00;38;48;16 - 00;39;08;04
Chris
Sort of like a very pleasing, symmetrical shaped, sort of hides the cushion. And you know what? We've been talking a lot about making your own more cat friendly in the sense of enrichment and giving them, some ways to sort of, emulate what they would be doing outdoors. I think this is a great way to start that process with your.

00;39;08;07 - 00;39;11;18
Kristen
Absolutely. What a great way for cats to get more exercise, too.

00;39;11;18 - 00;39;37;15
Chris
At home. Yes, yes. And, zooming around their stuff instead of your nice furniture. Right. Q and days. All right, pals, it's time for our favorite part of the episode. That's right. We're going to answer two questions from you, our beautiful listeners. And I know what you're thinking. Well, how do I get my question answered by Chris and Chris?

00;39;37;17 - 00;40;04;21
Chris
Quite simply, you can head on over to Pat's at life.org/podcast. Scroll on down to the bottom of that page and you will see a form to just, you know, submit your question or if you're feeling as brave as those affected by the LA fires, which is mighty freaking brave, you can submit a voice memo. Hey, if we if we have firefighters out there fighting fires day in and day out, you can submit a request can be a voice memo.

00;40;04;21 - 00;40;11;07
Chris
I believe in you. And so that that that buttons right there to go ahead, submit it and you'll hear your question played.

00;40;11;09 - 00;40;19;18
Kristen
I think you know what, Chris, I think we need to introduce a little bit of FOMO here. I think we should say that we're not taking any more questions. For the first quarter.

00;40;19;21 - 00;40;42;06
Chris
I heard a rumor that we have over 30,000 questions, in writing. No. Yeah. No. It's fine. We're lying. We have over we have 250 million written questions. So if you write your question, there's no guaranteed to get answered. But if you send in a voice memo, rarefied air, there it will be.

00;40;42;07 - 00;40;44;13
Kristen
Play bumps you to the top of the list.

00;40;44;16 - 00;40;52;09
Chris
Unless you end up asking Chris or Kristen out on a date with your case. We're not gonna play that. We're both happily.

00;40;52;09 - 00;40;53;06
Kristen
Married.

00;40;54;09 - 00;41;05;10
Chris
Great. Well, without further ado, Kristen, I've got a question for you. This question comes from Olivia in the beautiful city of Denver, Colorado. John Denver on this show.

00;41;05;10 - 00;41;06;16
Kristen
I love Denver.

00;41;06;18 - 00;41;22;24
Chris
Olivia asks my Labrador, Max. Imax has been chewing on everything lately, including for, tried giving him chew toys, but he always goes back to the couch. How can I redirect his chewing behavior and keep my furniture safe?

00;41;22;27 - 00;41;50;06
Kristen
Oh my goodness, Olivia, this is a great question for me because I've had 1 to 5 labs and I totally feel your pain. Chewed furniture, chewed shoes, chewed electronics, money. My last lab chewed up a wad of cash, so they are professional chewers, for sure. So, let's break it down into two different parts. Let's understand why Max is chewing and then what you can do about it.

00;41;50;06 - 00;42;11;15
Kristen
So he's probably chewing furniture over his toys because we I assume he's not teething because he's. You didn't mention that he was a puppy, but that is a common reason. Young dogs chew on things. They teeth between 3 and 7 weeks, typically for a lab. Now, Max could be bored or not getting enough physical and mental stimulation.

00;42;12;04 - 00;42;34;16
Kristen
He could be experiencing anxiety. Like, maybe he doesn't like being home alone. Or it could be that he simply hasn't learned what's appropriate to chew on and what's not. So, I'll just start with, I feel like I say this almost on every answer, but exercise is crucial. A tired dog is less likely to engage in destructive chewing.

00;42;34;18 - 00;42;54;21
Kristen
So make sure Max is getting plenty of physical activity. Labs need. You know, they're bigger dogs. They're active dogs, so they probably need a couple half hour, you know, walks or play times a day. And then take. And by the way, exercise can solve whether he's just bored or if he's anxious. That can be really helpful.

00;42;55;04 - 00;43;20;24
Kristen
And then you want to look at your toy selection. So sometimes it's just about not having the right toys or the, the toys that Max really likes. So try different textures and different types. Try it like rubber toys with treat compartments or puzzle toys, rope toys and of course the frozen car is kind of the classic, enrichment tool for dogs with peanut butter or yogurt inside.

00;43;21;02 - 00;43;40;08
Kristen
And I just would give him a selection of those toys and see what he gravitates towards and then maybe start, you know, purchasing a couple of toys like that. So, as far as the furniture goes, you can use a, a spray detergent, but not everybody likes to spray stuff on their furniture. But I would say give those two a try.

00;43;40;08 - 00;44;01;06
Kristen
Try to narrow down why he's, why he's chewing, and then see if some of those, those strategies work for you. And bonus tip, if you are leaving him home for long periods of time, maybe consider having a pet sitter. Stop. Sorry, a dog walker. Pop in a couple times a day or once a day to help burn off some of that energy.

00;44;01;08 - 00;44;03;21
Kristen
So good luck to Max and Olivia.

00;44;03;23 - 00;44;12;02
Chris
Good luck. Max. Great advice as always. Kristen, what do you got for me?

00;44;12;02 - 00;44;29;23
Kristen
I have a great I've got a question for you. And of course it is a cat question. Yeah. This comes yeah, this comes from Sophie in Portland. She says my cat Luna loves to jump on counters, but it's becoming a real safety issue when I'm cooking. I've tried a few methods to stop her, but nothing seems to work.

00;44;29;29 - 00;44;36;26
Kristen
Do you have any advice on how to train a cat to stay off counter tops without stressing her out?

00;44;36;28 - 00;45;01;06
Chris
Yeah, I mean a you can't train a cat to do anything. They treat me right. That's kind of how it goes. But I hear you as a cat owner. My favorite ingredient to cook with is cat hair, because as soon as you put something tasty in that pan, cats there. My big tip, and this is going to sound wild and totally out of pocket, but it works.

00;45;01;06 - 00;45;03;03
Chris
And I swear by it.

00;45;03;05 - 00;45;04;18
Kristen
Wait, what did you say? It's wet.

00;45;04;20 - 00;45;04;24
Chris
Oh.

00;45;04;24 - 00;45;05;12
Kristen
Aluminum foil.

00;45;05;12 - 00;45;26;03
Chris
Yeah, foil down on your countertops. But for whatever reason, they don't like it. They're going to. They're going to put their little paws on it and then they're going to freak out and scurry away. So especially if your concern is I'm cooking and this cat just can't come up here. There's knives, there's there's hot oil. Put some aluminum foil around.

00;45;26;03 - 00;45;40;29
Chris
And eventually they're just going to associate that bad feeling with, with the countertops and won't go up there anymore. So that one and it doesn't hurt. The cat is not hurting them. They just don't like it. They're just fussy. And you use that fussiness against them here.

00;45;41;15 - 00;45;43;04
Kristen
And you might want to roll video.

00;45;43;06 - 00;45;43;12
Chris
Your.

00;45;43;13 - 00;45;44;11
Kristen
First time. It happens.

00;45;44;11 - 00;46;04;14
Chris
Absolutely. Set up the tripod. Get your little influencer station going and let it rip. Number two. So it sounds like this is while cooking. So the cat's probably food motivated, which there's not much you can do about it. Honestly, you could try getting better treats, but nothing is. Nothing beats for a cat. The smell of meat cooking in butter.

00;46;04;17 - 00;46;23;19
Chris
Like. That's like the ultimate cream for them. You're never going to beat that. But if the cat is climbing because of boredom, you may want to listen to my product of the week from this week. You may want to invest in some type of cat, tree or other climbing structures cats want to climb. You're not going to stop them from climbing.

00;46;23;25 - 00;46;43;02
Chris
All you could do is give them better options. So maybe consider like a nice big cat tree where you keep some, treats and, some enrichment toys towards the top where they're going to have to climb on up there and sort of pat something around, maybe knock it off, jump down and go after it and stuff like that.

00;46;44;02 - 00;47;04;05
Chris
But usually when it's around cooking, it's because they smell something nice and, you know, they think the cat is coming. For what? For us at in our house, it's whenever I break out the American cheese for, like, bacon, egg and cheese is in the morning, the cat comes to collect the cheese tax. And there is no there's no satisfying tiger until she has that slice of cheese.

00;47;04;05 - 00;47;07;12
Chris
So sometimes the cat just treats you.

00;47;07;15 - 00;47;16;20
Kristen
This is true. So good luck, Sophie and Luna. Yeah, send us a video. If you do the aluminum aluminum foil trick, we'd love to see the video of her jumping up for the first time.

00;47;16;20 - 00;47;24;03
Chris
Those are always. Those are always funny. It's like when you had the cucumbers behind the cats and snakes. That's so funny. Yes. So it's.

00;47;24;04 - 00;47;24;29
Kristen
Still funny.

00;47;25;02 - 00;47;48;00
Chris
Yeah. It's still it's still funny. Well, hey, listen, that does, it for us on this episode of the Powell Podcast celebrating National Dog Training Month. It's been, awesome talking to these awesome guests and, learning some, really cool stuff about dog training in this modern world. I haven't had to train a dog in, like, over ten years.

00;47;48;00 - 00;47;52;11
Chris
So these new ways, doing things and new ways to think about it are really awesome.

00;47;52;14 - 00;48;07;18
Kristen
It keeps evolving, keeps getting better and better. And don't forget, we drop episodes every Tuesday. So hit that. Whether it's, follow or subscribe, whatever button you need to hit to make sure you don't miss one, do that and, share the show with your pet loving friends, too.

00;48;07;20 - 00;48;09;16
Chris
And the pet hating friends convert.

00;48;09;17 - 00;48;11;12
Kristen
Oh, yeah, that's right, that's right. Yes, we're.

00;48;11;15 - 00;48;30;17
Chris
Doing this show with our pet hating friends and we're converting them into pet lovers. One, grouchy Scrooge at a time. I don't know, I can think of, like, infamously famous, I guess, Cruella de Vil, but, like, I don't know. Yeah, well, I don't want her listening to the show, and, honestly, she she could, she could stay ignorant.

00;48;31;00 - 00;48;45;16
Chris
But, hey, I hope everybody's having a, awesome week. Happy Tuesday. We'll see you back here in one week's time. And, till then, be kind to yourself. Be kind still to your pets, and we'll see you soon.

00;48;45;19 - 00;48;48;29
Kristen
Bow out and meow for now with the who.