139. Understanding Pet Behavior, Better Dog Training & Why Choice Matters

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Pets Ad Life, your guide to the latest in pet trends, products, and the joy of the human animal bond with Kristen Levine and me, Chris Bonafati, powered by the American Pet Products Association and Dog TV. Hello and welcome to another episode of Pets Ad Life. I am one of your co-host, Chris Bonafati, and joining me as always is an enigma wrapped in a puzzle dropped in the center of a labyrinth. It is Kristen Levine.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Where do you come up with this stuff?

Speaker 1 (00:31):
I don't know, man. It just happens. Sometimes your brain just goes on autopilot and does a great job of landing the plane.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah. Well, I understand you're taking Dogtoberfest kind of seriously last night.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yeah, I had beers.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Multiples.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, multiple, three to be precise. And the thing about hitting your mid-thirties is you have three beers and a pizza and you wake up feeling terrible. I feel absolutely terrible. It's like I haven't digested any of that. My body was just upset that I consumed things after 8:30 PM. It was like, you can't do that and then absorb that. Yeah, it's

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Traumatic for your body.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah. Traumatic.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
So this is your first Hangover episode.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Well, I mean, it's the first Hangover episode from only three beers. I mean, we've done quite a few of these to say that I haven't been hungover in any of them. That would be a bold declaration. A bold declaration. All right. Especially since we've done some of these at Global, but hey, we'll say sure, let the record show this is the first Hangover show.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Admitted Hangover Show.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Admitted, yes. Admitted Hangover out in the open. Just a few days away from Halloween here in the middle of Dogtober Fest. Isn't October National Adopt a Dog Month?

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Something like that? It is, yes.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
There we go. So celebrating all of these awesome things. We'll have two pretty similar guests. We're weaving a tail together.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
Very good.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
And you'll want to stick around to see what we're trying to get at. We'll have two stories, two products. The end, we're going to answer two questions. We always do. We may or may not. We'll see. You're going to have to stick around to the end of the episode to figure out what that means. So without further ado, Kristen, what do you say we jump into story time?

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Stories, let's do it.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Kristen and Chris present Story Time.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
All right, Kristen, you want to kick us off today for stories?

Speaker 2 (02:51):
I'd be happy to. As you mentioned, October is Adopt a Dog Month, so I just wanted to highlight that there are some amazing dogs that can be found in shelters. So my story is one of Stray to Hero. So earlier this month, several dogs and a couple of humans were honored at the annual ASPCA Humane Award ceremony, and they hold that at the Plaza in New York City every year. And the Dog of the Year Award went to a yellow lab named Canyon. Now, Canyon was actually a stray from Mississippi who was picked up by the Hancock County Animal Shelter in Mississippi in 2021. And what happened was one of the members from a group called K9... I'm sorry, they're called Category 5K9, saw this dog in his kennel and just recognized that he had a little more drive and intelligence than maybe some of the other pups.

(03:49):
And she just somehow knew he might be right for search and rescue. And he was. He earned his FEMA human remains detection and his wilderness operation certifications in 2023. He's been deployed with Texas A&M Task Force one to the Maui wildfires a couple years ago to Hurricane Helene, and then more than 90 days along the Guadalupe River after the Texas floods last year. So he was named the dog of the year. And just another example of how shelter dogs can just be amazing. They're all amazing in their own way, but that's why I just think the shelter is the first place you should look when you go to adopt a dog into your family. So congratulations, Canyon.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Congratulations, Canyon indeed.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah. So what's your story? Are you going to tell us about your drunken pizza stooper last night? I

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Will tell you about the pizza. It's not the story, but the pizza is from this place in Connecticut we call Colony Grill. They literally just do mugs of beer and bar style pizzas, but they do the hot oil pizza, the spicy. And maybe that's what got me, but I've had it a bunch of times. I've had it a bunch of times and it's never affected me quite like this. Anyway, enough about pizza. I have a story and I want to start my story with a question to both Kristen and the audience. If you could, would you clone your dog?

Speaker 2 (05:22):
No, I would not.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Well, Tom Brady did. Of

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Course he did. This is a real

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Thing. And this is an old story. This was actually written last year and I just came upon it now and I had no idea that this was a thing. You would think me being in this space, I would know that this is... I did not know we had the technology to do clone.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Really? Okay.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
We've had a little while. Yeah, but I didn't realize. So there's this company called Colossal and basically they take your current dog's DNA and they clone your dog. So Tom Brady's original pit bull mix Lua died in 2023 and now he has the clone of the dog whose name is... I don't even know if they really talk about the cloned dog. And I don't know, man. I think this is insane. And I wouldn't either. I think every dog, in my opinion, every dog and pet is like a chapter of your life. And when that pet passes, it's time to close that chapter. And if you choose to open a new one, you choose to open a new one and welcome a new life and personality and circumstances into your home and life. I don't know about this clone business.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
I don't like it either, Chris. I think every dog is a one and only, and I feel like it's a disservice to that dog to clone them. I have a better idea. I think we should clone Tom Brady.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
We should clone Tom... Yes. That's what the world needs. We need an army of avocado ice cream eating divorce seeds. That is what we need because Tom Brady - That's one

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Way to describe him.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Well, yeah. I mean, I'm a Jets fan, so I have to take my shots at Tom Brady where I can get him because there's not a lot of opportunities.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Well, he's also an investor in that company, I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah. Same. It did disclose that. And Paris Hilton as well is an investor and had her dog cloned. And for me, if you had to pick in your mind, Palace, two celebrities who got their dogs cloned, Paris Hilton and Tom Brady are in the top five. You know what I mean? That's so true. They're right there. That's so true. Tom Brady with his weird sign stuff in Paris Hilton, I could just totally see somebody offering her that and just being like 1,000% yes. So yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
I think Tom would be a great interview though because now I do have questions. I am a little bit intrigued. I'd like to know how much this cloned dog is truly like his previous dog.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, it doesn't... This was written last year, so I don't think the new dog was alive for very long. It had recently been born, born, grown. I don't know. I don't even know what to say. So here's what the scientist behind Colossal says. When you clone an animal, it's an identical genetic copy. So it's the physical traits, it's appearance, but a lot of the behavior traits as well come with that. Obviously, there's still environmental factors that affect all of us. So interesting experiment in nature versus nurture. I'm sure Ron could book Tom Brady for us, I'm sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
Ron, get on it please.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Book TB 12.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
Book the goat, please.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah. Book the goat. Book the goat.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
Beyond the Leash: Exploring the Untold Stories of Pet Passion and Professionalism.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
It is my honor to introduce our next guest who has spent decades changing the way animal professionals think about one deceptively simple question. Why do animals do what they do? Well, Dr. Susan G. Friedman is a professor emeritus of psychology at Utah State University and the founder of Behavior Works, where she has helped bring the science of behavior analysis into the world of animal training, veterinary medicine, zoos, and companion animal care. She has co-authored chapters on behavior change in five veterinary textbooks. Her articles have been translated into 17 languages and her acclaimed course, How Behavior Works: Living and Learning with Animals has reached students from more than 60 countries. Susan's consulted with zoos, animal organizations around the world and the US Fish and Wildlife Services, California Condor Recovery Team. They probably could have found a shorter name for that, and chairs the scientific advisory committee for American Humanes Film and TV unit.

(10:01):
She is absolutely decorated in accolades, constantly asking the question. Instead of asking the question, what's wrong with this animal? We can learn to ask, what is this behavior telling us? Dr. Friedman, thank you so much for joining us on Pet Side Life.

Speaker 4 (10:19):
Thank you so much. And I'll start with a correction, which is always dangerous. My name is pronounced Friedman.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Friedman.

Speaker 4 (10:26):
Although I would not fault you for spelling it phonetically as the letters fall out. So sorry for that twist.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
No. First of all, I insist on calling you by your name properly. Second, I should have checked and that's completely my bad. Dr. Friedman, you've spent decades studying behavior across many different species. So when a pet parent tells you something like, "My dog is stubborn or my cat is just being bad," what's the first thing you want them to understand?

Speaker 4 (11:01):
Yeah. The first thing, and please call me Susan, that's the most comfortable approach anyway. Nobody's more surprised about that doctorate than I am. The first thing that I would say is I would thank them for the information. So we start right out by valuing the conversation. We're looking for joining together and not necessarily right answers or answers that are right for me. So after hopefully praising them for joining the conversation with me, the next thing I would ask is really a two parter. One is what is the animal actually doing that you can observe that you see? And the second is under what conditions do you see it? So we try and talk about behavior in conditions because behavior is always circumstantial. It's always about the conditions.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Well, and on that note, I know that you often emphasize that behavior doesn't occur in a vacuum. Is that what you mean by that?

Speaker 4 (12:11):
That's exactly what I mean.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah. So talk more a little bit about that.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
Yeah. Picking out that phrase I think is really key. We're taught to think about behavior in isolation and then we blame the individual who's behaving in that way as though they're behaving in a vacuum, but behavior is always responding, flexing to where the environment is moving us. So a simple example is that we learn when the traffic light is red, we put our foot on the brake. When it's green, we put our foot on the gas. We're not just moving our foot from pedal to pedal willy-nilly. We're responding to signals in the environment that tell us if we behave in a particular way, good things will follow. The car will stop on the red light. The car will go forward on the green light. And so in that way, what happens before behavior and what happens after influences behavior all the time.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
That's a really interesting way to put it. That definitely helps shape this conversation. One thing I want to ask about is dogs and sort of their ability to have guilt or regret. You come home and the garbage has been scattered everywhere and you look at your dog and we all know that guilty dog look. So does the dog actually know that they did something wrong? Are they actually anticipating consequence?

Speaker 4 (13:48):
I don't have a simple answer for you. I'm going to ask you a question instead. How do I know that you feel guilt? And that's not meant as a cheeky question. That means really for us to reflect, how do we know about one another's private thinking and feeling? What do we see?

Speaker 1 (14:10):
Body language, right?

Speaker 4 (14:12):
Yes, exactly. By behavior. Exactly. Body language. And so if you look remorseful, your eyes are down, your head is cast down, your hands are quiet, your shoulders are cast down in front of, let's say, a spilled garbage pail, then I'll say, "Oh, he feels badly." Whether we want to put the fine point on it to say what kind of bad, he feels guilt, he feels remorse. We can play with all of those fine grain descriptions, but the way we know what one another feels is by tracking behavior in conditions. So we're back to that phrase again. If the dog had its head drooping and its shoulders low and its tail still without the trash, we would give it a different interpretation. We might say the dog is feeling sick. Has he eaten today? Bring him to the veterinarian. So it's an interesting question. What do they feel is not directly accessible, but if I track their behavior and their behavior into the future, are they likely to do the trash maneuver again or not?

(15:24):
I might be able to apply some of those labels just to communicate what I think is going on. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Wow. So Susan, you've written about the importance of giving animals choice and control. So what does that look like with the typical family dog or cat? Should our pets be able... Should they be able to kind of tell us no if we want them to do something or perform a command?

Speaker 4 (15:54):
Absolutely. I think that we have come a long way in this area now and science as well as personal experience supports that control over your own outcomes, that is using your behavior to get what you want or to escape what you don't want is part of our biology. And when we think about it as psychology, it sort of puts it outside somewhere, but I think of it as part of our evolutionary inheritance. If we weren't born experiencing controlling outcomes as valuable, then we would probably just die right away. Controlling outcomes is how we survive. So it doesn't mean that they have to have control or choices 100% of the time. That would be true for our children or our spouses and neighbors as well. But we're talking about sort of lifestyles, a lifestyle of using your behavior effectively, that is to control a desired outcome, is really how we've evolved to thrive on the planet, to survive and to thrive.

(17:05):
So it's a different way of looking at it rather than expecting animals to do what we want them to do because we say so. We arrange the environment for them to do what we want them to do because they choose to. So what might that look like? Yeah. And then we go from there and we can train it.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Susan, you've worked across species and we focused a lot in this interview on companion animals, but you've also worked in zoos with various animal species that I don't think anybody would refer to as pets. So how did you take a lot of these things you learned from non-companion animals and apply it to the way our dogs and cats are thinking at home?

Speaker 4 (17:49):
Yeah, that's such an interesting question because sometimes it's easier to work with animals in a zoo. Sometimes it's easier to work with companion animals. I think the big difference is really living with an animal gives you an intimacy and accessibility to their learning that you don't get when you're working in a zoo and you leave at the end of the day. They're likely on your mind, but you're not living with them. Nobody has a giraffe in their bed, although that's a great childhood fantasy of mine. But the basic principles of learning and behavior are the same across species. We say that they're universal principles, custom fit to the individual, their behavior and their circumstances. So in working with zoo animals, I've kind of learned how much further we can go with learning solutions than we ever thought of before because it's hands-on. You can't grab a lion and force them to accept an injection.

(18:55):
So it leads towards training them to offer the body part for the injection for some valued consequence like a bucket of meat. And so from the zoo training, I've learned how much further we can go with our companions that we're living with, teaching them to offer the behaviors that we need instead of coercing them.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
That's a fantastic answer, Susan. We are coming up on time for our interview today, but I want to give you a chance if you have any social media pages or websites that folks can go to, to learn more from you or follow your journey, let folks know where they could find you.

Speaker 4 (19:37):
The best place would be at www.behaviorworks.org. So mind the org at the end. People sometimes forget the org and go to comm and then they can't find me. Everything at that website is available for download, free of charge. There's about 40 articles and there's lots of fun, cool graphics that could be put on t-shirts or on brochures or there's draft chapters from those veterinary texts you mentioned. Go there, read up, add a little bit of science confidence to what your experience and your heart is already telling you and enjoy what's there.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Well said. Thank you so much, Susan, for sharing your knowledge with us today and for your dedication to learning more about behavior in our animals.

Speaker 4 (20:28):
My pleasure. Behavior in animals, that's like chocolate and peanut butter. Perfect.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Wow. We have some awesome guests on this show, don't we?

Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, this so far has been very, very, very good. I really appreciate how simple Dr. Friedman made these complex... Emotions are complex because we're people and we can describe and articulate things. It doesn't have to be complicated for animals. I mean, the solutions can sometimes be complicated, but I feel like she really did a great job of explaining these complex things in very simple terms. I feel like I could do it now.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah. Even you could do it.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Even you could do it. I believe in each and every one of you.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
It's my pleasure to introduce our guest who believes that training shouldn't simply produce a well-behaved dog. It should give dogs and their people something they genuinely enjoy together. Jack McCauley is a professional dog trainer with BFF Pet Services in Maryland. And today he teaches everything from basic and advanced obedience to confidence building, tracking agility and canine sports. He's particularly passionate about disc dog and tree ball. Am I saying that right?

Speaker 5 (21:54):
It's tribal,

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Actually. Tribal. Okay. Tri-ball. We're going to learn more about that. And he's helped to develop freestyle routines and train disc dog teams competing around the world. Jack is also an AKC K9 good citizen evaluator, a certified trick evaluator and a canine conditioning coach. And beyond the training field, he creates and manages BFF Pet Services online training courses, helping pet parents learn how to become better trainers themselves. Welcome, Jack. It's great to have you here on our training/behavior themed show.

Speaker 5 (22:28):
Thank you. It's an honor to be here with you.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah. And I was on your website earlier today and I got a chuckle out of how you warn your clients that you have more energy than their dogs, so be ready.

Speaker 5 (22:41):
Yeah. I have always been built high energy and it's hard for me to slow down and it just matches well. I actually try to match myself with those dogs with the high energy as well.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
That's awesome.

Speaker 5 (22:53):
Actually, high energy dogs calm me down. I don't know how that works, but the higher energy, the better they are for me. Where most people see frustration, it calms me. I connect with them.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
Wow. Kind of a bond. So speaking of bond, that was one of my first questions was you talk a lot about creating a bond through training. So what's the difference between teaching a dog to obey us and actually teaching a dog to want to work with us?

Speaker 5 (23:23):
There's a different level to dog training. There's many, many levels. And sometimes we can be in first grade and have our PhD or we can be at both at the same time. When I talk about building a bond with dogs, I'm talking mostly to the newer clients who are newer to dog training, and most of those have a pet that they come home to and maybe the pet has some behaviors they don't like. When we talk about training, not only training, but learning how to communicate, teaching the dog how to learn and then making training fun, we see a completely different world with our dogs. It opens up so much and repeatedly here, because I do group classes, I've heard people tell me literally, "My dog, you guys changed my life. You changed my relationship." And I think not just with their dogs, but with spouses, with loved ones, because understanding the dog and building that bond has far more reaching capabilities than just the dog itself.

(24:24):
It helps us.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
I mean, you just have a less frustrating life when you're able to communicate well with your pet. So I want to ask you about something that a lot of dog owners struggle with and creates a lot of moments of tension and frustration, the walk, the long walk with dogs pulling on leashes and not being cooperative during the walk and getting distracted. So for our listeners out there who may have brought a dog home this summer and are struggling with their walks, what's something that an owner can change so walks feel a little bit less like a tug of war?

Speaker 5 (24:59):
There's a lot of depth to that because it's something that I teach regularly. The simple answer is don't reward the behavior. If the dog's pulling you, I stop. I wait till that leash goes slack. I mark it, praise it. Maybe if the dog connects with me again with eye contact or comes back to me, I reward with the treat and I go on. But you have to be willing to do that for a very long time, knowing that it takes a very long time for the dog to understand and to cooperate because it's going to feel like failure for a long time. But a little bit longer answer, and I'll keep it short, is impulse control. You have to have impulse control with the dog. If a dog is distracted by their environment and you haven't taught impulse control at the lowest level all the way up to the highest level, you're just going to fail with all obedience commands.

(25:49):
It's not just one behavior or one thing, but if you're just getting started and you want to, before you get into that, stop rewarding the behavior by allowing the pulling. It doesn't mean we have to yank the line, just stop, hold the line, wait until it goes loose and then move forward. Lather, rinse and repeat. Do it again and again.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah. I think just as humans in general, we're impatient, right? We want quick results and that's just not the case when you're training.

Speaker 5 (26:17):
And it doesn't go with dog training. You need to have it. It

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Doesn't. It doesn't. And I know that one of your specialties is also confidence building in shy dogs. So if somebody has a dog who's afraid of people or noises or being out in public or strange places, how do you build a dog's confidence without pushing the dog too far?

Speaker 5 (26:39):
I always tell people, think of your dog like a two-year-old child. Taper your expectations to each individual dog different. There's no one cookie cutter method, but within a system, you can create confidence in dogs. And one of the things I do is I use proprioception, body awareness, balance boards, wobble boards, climb benches. Agility is one of the best confidence building classes that I have. But those dogs get under stress. They don't think they can even do something as simple as put their paws up on a bucket. If we can convince them through shaping that slowly, I see them overcome that fear and often you'll see them even shake off the stress of their body, shaking their entire body. The dogs achieve that success in small doses and they learn how to overcome one situation at a time, building confidence slowly. Then we put that on a larger scale and larger scale, but there's more to it than that, certainly, but that essentially is the tool is creating situations where they need to overcome a fear, but in small, small doses.

(27:46):
Right.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
Baby steps.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, let's drill into that a little bit because in the introduction, Kristen brought up tri-ball, which I need to hear about and disc dog, which I'm familiar with and I've seen some of the competitions, but let's connect the dots here with some of these different dog sports that you've trained and taught and how you... It's like being a person. I did sports as a kid not expecting to compete really, but it was good for me and taught me different things. How can you sort of bring this all together in these sports to create a holistic way of training the dogs? And I got to know what tribal is. I have no idea what it is. You got to tell me.

Speaker 5 (28:28):
So try ball was invented in Germany in 2009 in an urban environment with owners that had herding breeds and they couldn't get to a farm or livestock where they could kind of expel this natural instinct of these dogs. So they created this sport with these basically exercise balls. There's nine balls and the dogs push that ball into goal. Now you have to teach them not to bite it and claw at it. That's part of the process. But they get that herding instinct out and expelling those drives, even as little as once a week, creates better behavior throughout the week. But try ball is a trick for the owners because they don't realize it because we're teaching the dog off-leash obedience with impulse control all through play. They have to sit, they have to stay, they have to go to place. They have to take distance commands and their feet are busy the whole time, so their mind is quiet.

(29:24):
So we keep them moving. They're always active and they really, really enjoy pushing these balls. I had one dog that there's nine balls and I'm in my facility now, it's like 40 feet long, could push those nine balls in a goal in 45 seconds. Oh my God.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (29:43):
It's just amazing. I actually have video of it somewhere because it's unbelievable to watch. Now we broke a lot of balls in the process, but at the end of the day, that dog's 14 now, his owner still sends me videos occasionally in her basement at home where she's working that. So it's a sport that you can be physical at, but it doesn't require a lot of physical, like a disc dog or an agility dog. Any dog can play the try ball. And that's one of the reasons I love it so much.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah. And I was just going to ask you, as long as your dog is healthy, can any dog learn try ball? And a follow up to my second part of my question would be, do you recommend that dog parents engage their dog in some type of sport as a way to increase their enrichment, exercise, mental stimulation, that sort of thing?

Speaker 5 (30:38):
I don't want this to sound harsh, but I had a client, long-term client, let her dog get overweight. We were doing disc dog and I asked her, we can't do this style of training. We could do a little bit of work, but we need to get the dog in shape before we can continue with this. And I take a hard line on advocating for dogs for their safety. Another client had a Great Dane and wanted to play Frisbee with them. I redirected her to tracking tracking. The dog gets great exercise. Matter of fact, both of their Great Danes track and they're phenomenal. You wouldn't believe it, but they're absolutely phenomenal man trackers. But that doesn't require the impact on a 180 pound Great Dane catching a Frisbee and jumping. And certainly freestyle is not something that a Great Dane's going to do. I do think that we need to look at the age of a dog, certainly a dog's growth plates before they're 18 months per se, things like that.

(31:30):
But also the age of the dog and the welfare of the dog. Everything should be. It's really common sense, but sometimes we as dog owners want to do more with our dogs than they should be doing. So I'm a big advocate for teaching dog owners and handlers what is appropriate and what isn't appropriate. So not all dog can do every sport.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Right. Right. Exactly. There's so much training advice on social media and YouTube. And some of it's great I'm sure, but some of it is not so much. So why don't you tell our listeners and viewers where we can get that information on your online courses so we can direct them to a very credible, great expert resource.

Speaker 5 (32:10):
So it is mybffetservices with an S, dot com, mybffetservices.com with an S, and you just look for the services offered and drop down menu to the online courses. It's not just obedience. We have a lot of other trainers on there as well, teaching courses.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Great. Well, this has been a great conversation and maybe we can have you back to talk about tricks. I would love to. I think trick training is something that a lot of people are interested in and I know you've got a lot of experience with that too.

Speaker 5 (32:41):
Yeah, I

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Do. Thanks so much.

Speaker 5 (32:42):
Love it.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah. Thank you Jack for being with us today.

Speaker 5 (32:46):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Well, I tell you, I can really relate to needing help with impulse control for Tulip. She is extremely impulsive. Well, yeah you

Speaker 1 (32:59):
Do. I need it for myself. No, Jack is one of the elite. I like to say he's your favorite dog trainer's favorite dog trainer. He's a guy who really knows his stuff and has worked with and assisted in the careers of several of the trainers we've had on this show. I'm not going to put them all on blast, but his resources are absolutely great and clearly he's got the right kind of head for it. So if you're struggling with a behavior, he's got a solution.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
The product of the week.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
All right. It's time for our product of the week. That was tough to do without feeling like I was going to hurl.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
Spinning

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Up. Created a little bile on the back of my throat. I'll go ahead. I'll kick us off. I've got a leash company today and this one is one of those ones with a very simple design that is so simple and straightforward. It's like, how is this just not on every leash? Maybe because it's patented, I really don't know. But this is from Stix Leash made by, or by Made Simply, but Stix Leash is the brand you may know and love. And the concept is so simple. What if you had a leash with a bunch of carabiners attached to it and you could just clip all the things you need for your walk on there? So it's got the lead and then the very basic retractable lead holder. They show it as in their example pictures, they have somebody with the poop bags and then with the collapsible water bowl and then with their car keys kind of looped into it.

(34:43):
So it's just as a man who doesn't often carry a bag and insists that he could carry his entire life in his jeans pockets.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Sounds like my husband.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
I think I just kind of vibed with every single guy who listens to the show. It's nice. You could even up near the lead itself, there's additional rings if you want to clip more stuff on there or because it doesn't fit on the retractor itself, it's even got this bone shaped dangly that you could hang the used poop bags from.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Ooh, that would come in

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Handy. So you tie the knot, you slip it through the thick part of the bone and then it drops down to a thinner part and then not

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Catches. So you don't have to hold the poop.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
You don't have to hold the... I mean, you're kind of still holding the poop, but

Speaker 2 (35:34):
You don't have - Yeah, but you have some distance.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
One of your hands is just kind of holding everything. So I think it's a really cool product, comes in different colors, comes in a small, medium or a large Excel. You could get it straight from their website. That's going to be in your notes starting at... This is the starter kit comes with the retractable leash holder, the nylon leash, the bone shaped dirty poop bag holder, a poop bag dispenser and eight different clips for $60. So a nice little starter. That's

Speaker 2 (36:11):
A lot of stuff to clip on a leash.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
It's a lot of stuff. But I'm a guy who just loves, I just love not having a backpack or a purse. I'm not afraid to have a purse. I just

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Don't. Isn't it a merse when it's

Speaker 1 (36:25):
Guys? A murse, yeah. A satchel, if you may. All right, that's enough of that. Kristen, what do you got for us this week?

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Okay. I've got a cat product and this is one that I would assume most cats might already have something like this, but if they don't, they should. This one is by a company called GoCat. It's called Dubbird Original Feather Teaser Wand. So I like this product because it's a toy that is made for building the bond with your cat. In other words, it only works with two players, so the cat and you. And the bird is apparently, according to the company, is a cult favorite among cat owners for years. It's a long flexible wand. It has a little swivel attachment and they have lifelike feathers that flutter and spin like a real bird in flight, like it would appear if a real bird was flying by. So it's very interactive and behaviorists point to some of the best bonding time you can spend with your pet is playing with them.

(37:30):
And this gives your cat a chance to... You're controlling the prey, so to speak, and your cat is able to be the hunter and the pouncer and they get to tap into those natural instincts that most house cats just don't get much chance to do during the day. So I linked in the show notes to the company, although you can get it on Amazon and Chewy, but I linked to the company's website because they have tons of replacement, what do you call them? Dongles.

(38:01):
The feathers. Yeah, like dongles. Yeah. Dudads. There you go. Dudads. Yeah. You can replace it with your feathers. If they get all gnarled, you can replace it with other doo-dads that are super cute. So it's only about 10 to 13 bucks. I mean, super, super affordable.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
And they have been around forever.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, they sure have. And you can never have too many feather wands, in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah. No, it's great about those toys. I think everybody doesn't really appreciate how fast cat's reflexes really are. There's a reason we say cat-like reflexes. So it's very difficult as humans for us to challenge that and without great effort, create enough speed to challenge their reflex. And that's kind of why the wand works. It's really easy to make the little things at the end go really, really fast and actually challenge your cat a little bit. And that's why they've been around forever and will continue to be around until we stop domesticating cats.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
Q

Speaker 3 (39:01):
And

Speaker 2 (39:01):
A's.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
All right, Kristen, it's time for our favorite part of the show. That's right. We're going to answer two

(39:09):
Questions from our amazing audience. I know what you're thinking. Amazing audience. How do I have my question answered by Chris and Kristen? Well, it could be easier. Head on over to pet@life.org/podcast. Scroll on down to the bottom of that page and you will see a form to submit your question. Or if you're feeling as brave as a freshly cloned dog, hot off the gyroscope and fresh in this world, I really don't know how they're burned. To me, that's crazy. Anyway, if you're feeling that brave, you could record a voice memo and you might hear your question played live on the air. So without further ado, Kristen, I believe you've got a question to read off here.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
I sure do. And this one is from Melissa in Philly. Hi, Melissa. Melissa asks, "My dog is perfectly sweet at home, but the second he sees another dog on a walk, he barks, lunges, and completely loses it. People assume he's aggressive, but I'm not sure that that's what's happening. Why do dogs become reactive like this and what should I be doing in that moment?"

Speaker 1 (40:12):
That is a great question. And I know everybody wants their questions answered by Chris and Kristen, but I'm feeling a little under prepared, a little under the weather. I might have to go to the bathroom right now. So we're going to go ahead and we're going to call in some experts. We're going to bring our guests back into the show to answer our questions for our audience today.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
This is such a perfect question for Dr. Freeman, AKA Susan. A

Speaker 4 (40:45):
Few other words, I'm sure, but go ahead.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Right, right, right. So we're delighted that you are willing to hop back on and answer this question for our listeners and viewers.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
Yeah, that's a big question. First of all, the fact that you described behavior and conditions is exactly what we hope for and what we need to help. So you didn't just describe this dog is reactive. You described specifically that that behavior pattern occurs given another dog on a walk. And so there are a variety of ways to work with this problem. And I'll just give you a little overview and then I would ask you to dive deep on the internet for experts in that area, which I could give some names if that was helpful. But for the overview, the idea is to teach the dog that seeing the other dog causes no harm and is not a way to get there to the other dog. People often use very strong treats at a very high rate of delivery and they start to deliver those treats before the dog is reacting.

(41:54):
So you need to be attentive enough to see that other dog coming first. And then you start to feed, feed, feed, and you may even turn away after a few seconds. So the whole goal of the program is to associate the other dog's view with really outrageous food at a very high quantity and so that when they see another dog, they turn to you for the food. That's the ultimate behavior. But I think the key to this is that you do all of that work, what's called sub-threshold, before the dog starts to bark and lunge. So it puts a lot of responsibility on us to see the other dog coming before it already triggers that response. And then there are other approaches to it. So it's really the kind of thing that I think if you ask the question on the internet, you'll get some deeper information than we can give here and that your dog is worth that study.

(42:55):
The dog is worth you finding out what are the alternatives and how to manage them.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yeah. Well, and I also want to applaud Melissa for recognizing that she knew that it's not because her dog is aggressive. She knew there was something else behind it, which could have been fear. So again, just important to understand what they're communicating with their behavior.

Speaker 4 (43:16):
Whether the dog is feeling afraid or feeling aggressive, what the dog is feeling, as we said before, is part of the private life of the dog. What we do know is the dog is uncomfortable. Yeah. So I teach people to just say uncomfortable or comfortable, and then we don't have to worry about all these fine slices, which really we can't know. Yeah. Finish that though.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
Thank you again for answering this question. You certainly did a much better job than I would've done. I can't even get your name right.

Speaker 4 (43:50):
I have no worries at all.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
All right. And our second question of the day comes to us from Brian in Chicago. Thank you, Brian, for your question. And Brian asks, "My two-year-old dog knows commands like come, stay, sit and leave it really well at home. But outside, it's like he's never heard them before." It's just so relatable. "Is he choosing not to listen to me or is there something about the environment that's making it harder for him? Kristen, I think we should call in some relief here."

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Yeah, this sounds like a perfect question for Jack McCauley.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
So let's bring Jack back onto the show. He's going to answer Brian's question for us. Jack, welcome back.

Speaker 5 (44:35):
Thanks. I appreciate it. I get this question all the time. Our clients in the in-person classes start in a very sterile environment. I'm in the training facility. You can probably see it behind me. It's easy to teach all those commands because it's sterile. And within this room, I start impulse control because without impulse control, all of your obedience commands go out the window as soon as there's the slightest distraction. If I roll a ball down this floor and a dog can't hold a stay, they certainly can't stop from chasing a squirrel on a walk or going to see the friendly person that they want to greet. So we take those impulse control drills at a very low level and increase them and increase them and increase them. But also dogs are very environmentally conditioned. So though it applies in this setting, it's like an equation, the building, the odors, the location, the time of the day.

(45:28):
We need to change and modify that equation until they start eliminating portions of the equation that don't matter. So you take them outside and they're like, "I don't know it. Never heard it before. Sit. What's that?" So we retrain those behaviors in an outside environment with as little distractions as possible so they know, "Hey, it means the same thing here as it does inside." And then we start layering in low level distractions. And here's the key, real easy for someone who's having that kind of trouble. Distance is your friend. If your dog cannot understand you are listening, they are over threshold and that just means they're simply too close to the distraction, create distance until they start listening and then work at that location and slowly get closer. But you really need to find some impulse control methods that are really going to take your dog training to the next level.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Excellent answer.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
That is certainly an answer that is far superior to anything I could have given. So thank you Jack for hopping back on. Thank you Brian for your question. All right. Thank you again to our guests for answering those questions and we're done. That's it. That's the end of our

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Show. I learned a lot today. I learned a lot today. I don't know about you.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
I tried to learn, but my brain did not... I don't think I absorbed any of it. I was present while learning happened.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
You're busy absorbing the pizza oil and the beer you drink last week. Well, I hope you feel better next week.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
I think I will, but no promises. You know what? I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to blame my wife. I'm throwing her under the bus. She was like, "You need to get out of the house more. You need to do things that don't have to do with baby and work. You need to go to other things and socialize with people your age."

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Such a good

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Wife. Share your interests. And now I'm hugging the porcelain praying to the porcelain gods. Yeah. I'm curled up on the bathroom floor, but hey, I do it all for the love of the game people. We will see you next week as always. That's right. And yeah, even when I'm like this, we don't miss an episode, so you know we'll be back next week.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
That's right. And puppy lattes are in season. Go get you one.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Pets Ad Life, your guide to the latest in pet trends, products, and the joy of the human animal bond with Kristen Levine and me, Chris Bonifati, powered by the American Pet Products Association and Dog TV.