132. Red Light Therapy, Smarter Veterinary Care & Helping Pets Live Healthier Lives

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Pets Ad Life, your guide to the latest in pet trends, products, and the joy of the human animal bond with Kristen Levine and me, Chris Bonafati, powered by the American Pet Products Association and Dog TV. Oh my goodness. Oh man, we are off to a great start already on this brand new episode of Pets Ad Life. I am one of your giggly co-hosts, Chris Bonafati, and joining me as always the queen of Candyland herself, Kristen Levine.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
I love Candyland.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Yeah. I used to really like that game, but the chocolate fudge monster freaked me out. I had legitimate

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Nightmares-

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Nightmares? Yeah, about drowning in the chocolate fudge swamp and the monster eating me as a child.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Okay. Okay.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
If that's not revealing of my character, then I don't know what is. It's

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Very revealing and

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Frightening. Yeah, very

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Revealing.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
Well, hey, we're going to be doing some revealing today. We are? Yeah, we're going to reveal what our two stories are. We're going to reveal two excellent guests. We are going to reveal two products and you can't really reveal questions. You mostly answer them. It'd be interesting though to just reveal

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Questions. Reveal them. Let's try to reveal them.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
We're not going to address them. We're just going to put everybody on blast. We should do that once. We're not going to answer these, but here's 10 of the dumbest questions that have come

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Into it. We don't get dumb questions, Chris.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
You're right. Well, we definitely don't air dumb questions.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Okay, that's true. That's true. We

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Definitely don't air dumb questions.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
I think we need to do an episode where we do air the dumb questions. That would be fun.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Well, no, we'd be getting all of the questions because we're in fall now and it's going to be all of the guys in my fantasy football group asking fantasy football. It's about that time of the year where the fantasy football questions start coming in because my friends love to troll. They think they're trolling me, but I'm like, man, I don't deal with that inbox. I got a guy for that.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
I got a guy. I got a

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Guy for that. Anyways, let's go ahead and jump into this week's story time.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
Kristen and Chris present Story Time.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
All right, Chris, I know you've got a funny one today. So I'm going to let you kick us off.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
I have one that I was saying in our little pre-show meeting that I can't believe that the New York Times picked this up because it's not news. So the title of the article grabbed me right away because it says, "Your cat is being nice? Think again."

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Uh-oh.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
So this is an article about a study that finds that sometimes cats groom each other to specifically be annoying.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Really?

Speaker 1 (02:52):
I mean, the reason that has stood the test of time is it's mutual aid. It's innocent behavior. It's called allo grooming and it's widespread in the animal kingdom, primates do it, birds,

Speaker 4 (03:07):
Horses,

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Even some insects. And it's an act of kindness that supports social bonding and wins friends and community. So I love the language in this article too. You have to read it because they're writing it like it's a crime thriller. It says, "So far mutual grooming in cats has been categorized as affiliative or friendly cat behavior or so we though."

(03:37):
So they're speaking with Morgan Van Bell, a cat behavioral scientist at Gent University and the studies lead author. And she goes on to say, "I saw these weird grooming patterns in my own cats where I thought this is not friendly at all. Sometimes one cat would lay on the blanket near the window and the other cat would come up and start licking it, but in an annoying way." So they did this whole study and I'm not going to go too far into it because it is actually quite a long article, but basically they found that sometimes the grooming is mutual aid and sometimes the cat will groom another cat to literally be like - Just to be a jerk. Yeah, just to be a jerk, be like, "I want to bother you right now and here's how I'm going to do that." So

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Almost like a dominance type of thing.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah. I mean pecking order, right? It's why hens peck down at each other. But I mean the article, check it out for sure. It's so well written. It's so funny. It's so lighthearted and amusing.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
Okay. Well, we got to link that in the show notes for sure.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yes, absolutely. So check it out. It was a fun read. I enjoyed that one.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Good, good. Well, mine's a good news story too. It's definitely not funny, but I chose this one because our show's co-producer APPA, which is American Pet Products Association, they actively support pet-friendly housing advocacy and this has to do with that. So the Massachusetts House passed Senate Bill 3028 this summer, and this bill would bar public housing properties from banning pets based on breed, size, or weight. And it would also ease the current pet seizure process. So that's some good news. It's not law just yet. They still have to work out some differences between versions of the bill, but it sounds like it's going to be moving into law soon. So a little good news there on the pet friendly housing front.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
Yeah, I love hearing stories like that. I think we're really reaching a turning point in that kind of legislation. And even locally around here in Norwalk, we have all sorts of housing being built and it's all pet friendly, I'm happy to say. Good. So I've definitely been noticing some momentum going that direction. And I think between housing and community spaces, third spaces, I think we're seeing a lot of improvement.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
About time.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, about time.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
Beyond the leash, exploring the untold stories of pet passion and professionalism.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
And it is my honor to introduce our next guest, Jackie Jolie, founder of Animal Soul, a company exploring how red and near infrared light technology can support animal wellness. Jackie spent more than 15 years working with animals with a background in equine health and rehabilitation and extensive experience in equine and canine body work. Her own health journey combined with what she observed working with animals eventually led her to explore, and here I'm going for it, photobiomodulation, nailed it, better known as red light therapy and to create wearable light therapy products designed specifically for animals. Today she's helping pet parents better understand the role light plays in our animals' lives from the natural light they're exposed to every day to the emerging use of red and near infrared light in animal care. Jackie, thank you so much for taking some time today to hop on the show.

Speaker 4 (07:11):
Thank you so much. You conquered that. That was awesome. My honor. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Absolutely. Hey, my job is to sometimes just read the words on the screen.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
Hey, I got to interrupt here. You conquered photobiomodulation, but you butchered equine.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah, I know. Well, listen, I'm going to make a hot take right here. Q is the most confusing letter in the alphabet. You throw Q into a word and it's all off. Let's not focus on Chris and his inability to read and let's focus instead on Jackie and red light therapy.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
Red light therapy to help boost the brain power there.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Please, yeah. Well, so why don't you explain a little bit for the folks at home who may not be familiar with red light therapy, what exactly is red and near infrared light therapy and how's it being used with animals?

Speaker 4 (08:02):
Oh my gosh. So quickly, we've always had as a therapeutic light device, we've had lasers around since the '60s and '70s. So most pet parents, especially if they're doing any type of rehab, post-surgical work, any type of preventative medicine, a lot of veterinarians will have lasers, both on the equine and canine side. Lasers and red light therapy that we see now exploding everywhere on the biohacking, human health, animal health, red light therapy and lasers are the same therapy. I'm going to repeat that because it's important to learn this. Lasers and red light therapy are the same therapy. They are both photobiomodulation. They are delivering red and near infrared light wavelengths to a tissue to create change in the biology for the better, hopefully. So lasers are what we've had around for forever and they do work. However, I don't think they've had the opportunity to shine, pun intended, to show how good light is and to use it first and foremost for everything because lasers are very expensive.

(09:06):
So most pet parents cannot invest in them. You have to wait for your veterinarian to also invest in them. They're only going to get trained from the laser company. Your veterinarians do not learn about light in school, as well as lasers become inconvenient for both the practitioner and the pet parent because you have to get to the vet several times a week for several weeks in a row to show light therapy and lasers working. And then that also causes the practitioner to be spending that time attached to the laser onto the body, taking up that time in the clinic as well. So that gets inconvenient and expensive. And then in addition, lasers can cause harm. If you don't know what you're doing, it's a very strong beam of coherent light that can burn tissue, singe hair, burn through ligaments and tendons. You can't use it on cancer.

(09:53):
You don't always know when your dog has cancer, and you can't use it on parts of the body that have metal because it creates a thermal effect. So lasers work. They're great. They were the first invention, but also with all new technology, technology is supposed to allow things to become just as effective, if not better, but also safer and more accessible to everyone. The invention of LEDs created that. We have LEDs in flashlights, light bulbs, your house bulbs, your car bulbs. You can capture wavelengths of light of all the different colors to create benefits in LEDs. And that's what our products are made out of as well. Now again, it's still going to come down to quality of product, both on lasers and LEDs. You want something built correctly from somebody that knows what they're doing in light, hopefully working with animals as well. And so now we're starting to see where we can bring in LED light therapy and bring the amazing incredible healing and benefits of light therapy now to the home of the pet parent to where they can use it every single day.

(10:53):
It's safe, you can't cause any burning or heating or overdosage. And now you can create amazing healing that you would get just like you would from lasers, but at home and it's effective and safe and affordable.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
That's awesome. Jackie, you're such a great speaker. You're great at teaching.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
I'm very passionate about light and light makes my brain work like a Ferrari, so it's fun. We can

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Tell. I love it. We can tell. So let's talk a little bit about claims online about red light therapy or laser therapy. They range everywhere from treating pain and inflammation to healing and recovery. What does the science, and you already alluded to it, but what does the science actually support today when it comes to photobiomodulation in our pets and where do we need to do more research?

Speaker 4 (11:41):
Well, yes and no. So the cool thing is there's actually over 7,000 and counting scientific articles behind photobiomodulation. So it is one of the most studied modalities ever. It has not won the Nobel Prize, although it should, but just like Albert Einstein, Dr. Philson, the circadian guys in 2017, they're all getting Nobel Prizes associated with something that has to do with light. NASA that sends us to space was studying growing plants in space in the 1970s with red and near infrared light LEDs, not a laser, LEDs. And they grew plants in space, so they were starting to do tons of research on light and how it affects the body. So the research is out there. Again, the reason why we haven't seen it in the mainstream or very easy for pet parents is a couple of different reasons. It just hasn't been taught in schools, so our practitioners don't have that knowledge.

(12:34):
And in addition, you can't patent the sun. So big pharma can't patent light and try to provide that as medication, even though - I think I

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Know a few billionaires who would try.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
Yes. But if we think about it common sense wise, even taking the science away, the sun is the strongest, fastest natural energy source we have in the existence of the universe. If it wasn't here, none of us living things would be here. Well, now all of us modern animals, including humans, because they have forgotten that they're animals, we all live indoors now. So everything, we're like 97% of our time indoors around artificial light. So our bigger message as a company is not just, "Hey, we have this amazing product for animals that will heal wounds and injuries and soft tissue and illnesses because it will do that all day every day very quickly, and there's plenty of science behind it." We want to teach that your pets are actually deficient in the most vital nutrient that the body is starving for, which is light. Light controls all the processes in the body, hormones, endocrine, cardiovascular, musculoskeletal.

(13:39):
We are light beings before we are chemical, mineral, and vitamin beings. And so if you're shoving all of these products, some of these things into the body, a lot of them can be helpful, but if the body's not getting the right light trigger to spark and turn it on or turn it off, you're kind of on a hamster wheel, if that makes sense. So light is truly the foundation of health and that's what we want to teach as a company. And now that we have full body wearables, you're literally giving a supplementation of light. If your dog was deficient in vitamin C or selenium or vitamin K, you're going to supplement it in whole foods or a supplement. We need to start seeing light as the most important supplement for the body to get first and foremost.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Well, what are some changes pet parents can start making today, especially let's say you have an indoors cat or you have a lazy dog that doesn't like these warm summer days. What are some simple changes pet parents can make to make sure our pets every day, I think the term you used was light environment, is as healthy and nurturing as possible?

Speaker 4 (14:51):
Yeah. Again, me and the company will always say, get your animal outside as much as possible, grounded to the earth in the sunlight because that's free. That is free energy and no manmade product can ever replace nature's energy. She's the OG healer and she will always do that. Some really great tips that we like to give, like sunrise is the best light for all of our eyes and all of our skins. It sets your circadian clocks. It gets the energy going for the day. It turns jeans off, turns jeans on, processes on, processes off. So sunrise or that first hour within sunrise, I always say, get outside, take that walk with your dog or get out with your cat. There's companies now that make cat patios that attach to the window or stick them outside. Cats get the worst health now because they're inside twenty four seven.

(15:37):
They get horrible urinary issues and renal issues and diabetes, metabolic issues. The sun and light control, all of that. Also, I always want to point out, get your dog out. Even if it is hot, get out for five minutes, take a quick brief walk, just get some sunshine, refresh, and then put them back inside. Again, you can use products like ours to create that supplementation if it's too hot, if it's been raining for four days straight. If it's wintertime and you're not getting as much bright light, it's a great time to supplement with red light therapy there. I also like to add, as important as it is to get sunrise and bright sun throughout the day, we are circadian mammals. Our pets are too. So you need darkness. The darkness is just as important as the light. And in our modern life, we are surrounded by light at night and it is screwing up hormones, adrenals, blood sugar, blue light coming from tech screens and LED light bulbs.

(16:30):
Raise your blood sugar before you've even eaten a donut or a salad, kibble or a bone, cat food or tuna. It will raise the blood sugar and raise insulin before you've even changed the diet. So we do need to realize how important that light piece truly is to health.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, absolutely. Anecdotally, I will say one of the biggest recent changes I made in my life was ditching the phone at bedtime and switching to books. And I mean, the difference between me now and me six months ago, I have a baby at home and I was not keeping up and now suddenly I feel like I could do this for the next 18 years.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
Awesome. Yeah. You're actually getting restful sleep. Your body, the light tells your body it's noon, and so you're supposed to be alert and adrenaline and blood sugar and endorphins when at night we're supposed to be slowing down and doing all of our regenerative programs, killing cancer, reforming cells and actually regenerating. You can't do that unless you have darkness and no stimulation. So kudos

Speaker 2 (17:32):
To you. Jackie, this is really fascinating. We're coming up on time. I just want to ask you one final question before we wrap up, but for your products that are made for consumers, how cost effective is this for pet parents and do they need training to use them?

Speaker 4 (17:48):
It's super cost effective compared to what lasers are, right? Lasers are 10s, 20, $30,000. And then getting to your vet, they're also two or $300 a session usually. Our most expensive jacket for dogs is 1200, but that's for the extra large, like your St. Bernards. So everything's smaller is lower. This is a product that's going to last you eight, nine, 10 years. So if you break down that cost per year, I've saved you a ton of money on the product, something you can use every single day. In addition, the cost that it's going to save you because of the healing benefits the animal's going to get, hopefully we prevent you from going to the vet so often and needing pain medication or some type of lameness or something like that. And on top of that, our products are safe for all animals. Humans are animals, which means you can use these products too.

(18:35):
So you don't have to buy multiple red light therapy products to have in the house. You can just share with your dog or cat if they let you.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
And we all love sharing with our pets.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
We do. Jackie, thank you so much. Tell us where we can find out more information about red light therapy for our pets.

Speaker 4 (18:52):
Yeah. Thanks for letting me be on and spreading the light. I really appreciate it. As you can tell, very passionate about it. Everybody can come see us at animasoul.com. We also have all of the different social media platforms, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. So just come find us. We're sharing case studies all the time. We have case studies on our website. We have science, we have blogs, and you can actually reach a real human being when you email us and you normally get me. So I'm happy to help you and help get light to your pet and get them lit.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
Well, Jackie, I might just be calling the hotline when I need a pep talk because you have incredible energy to everything and we greatly appreciate you taking some time out of your busy day to educate us. This was incredibly fascinating to learn all about. I think I'm going to take a deeper dive into some of the science. I love reading about that kind of stuff and I find it really fascinating. So really awesome. Everyone be sure to check out the website. We're going to throw it in the show notes so that you don't have to worry about spelling. And thank you again to Jackie.

Speaker 4 (19:56):
Thank you

Speaker 2 (19:56):
So

Speaker 4 (19:56):
Much. Thanks Jackie. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
Hey, I'm on the red light therapy bandwagon. I have one of those face masks for my face.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Is that the key to your seemingly vampiric and

Speaker 2 (20:12):
Eternal wellspring of

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Youth?

Speaker 2 (20:14):
Absolutely. Yeah. I'm going to credit that. Sure.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
Because you haven't aged a day since we started doing the show and I look like I've been the president of the United States. You know how they always show the before and after, and it looks like the job just sucked the soul out of them.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
I'm going through that right

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Now. Chris, now you're being tough on yourself.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
No.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Nothing a little red light therapy can't fix.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
That's what I was thinking. If I could just do a little red light therapy, I just got to figure out how I could do red light therapy while reading because I don't have any more free time, so it's going to have to be combined with something. So maybe I'll switch to the audio books if it's going all on the face.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Okay. I'm going to show you how. Standby.

(21:03):
All right. Please join me in welcoming our guest, Dr. Emily King. She's a veterinarian educator and the founder of All-Star Veterinary Clinic in Westfield, Indiana. A graduate of the University of Tennessee College of Veterinary Medicine, Dr. King returned home to Central Indiana to build a veterinary practice centered around exceptional care, strong relationships with pet parents and a positive impact on the community. Now beyond the exam room, she's also become a popular voice in veterinary education using social media and the Veterinary Roundtable podcast to answer a real world pet health questions, also to tackle common misconceptions and to give pet parents a better look at what veterinarians wish we all knew. So fellow podcaster, Dr. Emily King, welcome.

Speaker 5 (21:51):
Thank you. Thanks for having me today. I'm excited to join you guys.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yeah. Well, we're excited to have you. I'll just kick it off by asking you that you've spent more than two decades in veterinary medicine. What are some of the biggest changes? Because a lot has changed. Some of the biggest changes in the way people care for and think about their pets.

Speaker 5 (22:12):
Oh, wow. I mean, you're exactly right. There are so many changes that we've seen throughout the past. When I graduated in 1996, which everybody considers me an OG now, back in the day, the quality of medicine and what we were able to do and what we were able to provide for pet parents has dramatically shifted. And I think that's been amazing, but it's also been a little bit of a rub for people because with advanced medicine and advanced diagnostics and advanced treatments and procedures comes an increase in cost. And so we've also seen that change over this period of time. And so I think that what we're able to do in terms of treating disease for pet parents is just really fascinating. It's really interesting and it's really special.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah. And you know what? Yes, what you do is really special. One of the things I say quite often on this show is that you can't believe everything you see online and that we need more veterinarians involved in the online discussion, people that are putting reliable information out there. So I want to ask about some of the common pet health myths or pieces of bad information that you find yourself having to correct over and over again on maybe your show or in your practice.

Speaker 5 (23:36):
Yeah. I mean, I think that some of them are probably maybe deemed controversial, like here I'm going to say some things and you guys might get some blow back. All right. Okay. So one of the misconceptions that you will hear us talk about quite frequently as veterinarians would be garlic treats fleas. Just not going to happen. I'm right there with you. There's enough research to suggest that it's just not going to happen. And so everybody wants. It's just like in human medicine, if something goes wrong because of medication, which is always a possibility, then we're looking for someone to blame. And then I think we look past idiosyncratic drug reactions and we assume that we have manufacturers that are out here producing products that

(24:28):
Are causing harm. And so I think one of the other misconceptions, I just answered it in an exam room the other day, this gentleman was like, "I feed this prescription food because I was told to feed this prescription food, but you know what? I know this prescription food has no nutrients in it. It's been cooked. It has absolutely no nutrients. So I add this other product." I'm not going to mention the product. "Add the other product in so that it's a more complete diet." And my younger self would have just let that roll on past. And now that I'm older and I'm like, "All right, let's have a conversation here." The food is manufactured by board certified veterinary nutritionists. These products are well formulated. They're AFCO tested, which means not only is your pet going to survive on the product, it's going to do well on the product.

(25:24):
And it's just not good business sense to think that nutrition, like animal food companies, are producing products to kill your animals. It doesn't work from a business perspective. They want your animal to live as long as possible so you buy as much food as possible. The other just doesn't make good business sense. And so those are some of the really common ones that we talk about quite frequently.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
That has to be so frustrating. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
I haven't heard the garlic one in a while, but as I always say, garlic is for pastas and fighting vampires and that's it. That's it. It ends there.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
And Dr. King, I think part of the problem is we hear so much conflicting advice online and social media about what our pets should eat, what's good, what's not good, commercials, supplements. It's very overwhelming and confusing to consumers. So how would you advise pet parents to separate when is it okay to search for answers online versus talk to your veterinarian?

Speaker 5 (26:28):
I think that now we have AI search engines that are also pulling information. And I think that when you're searching through Safari on Google and you're getting, I do think there's some accuracy in the information that the pet owners are getting back to themselves. I think then verifying that, like trust but verify kind of

Speaker 4 (26:49):
Mentality

Speaker 5 (26:49):
Is extremely helpful. I think when you're on Instagram and TikTok, I think it's extremely important to look, is it a sponsored ad? Is it a veterinarian? Because a lot of people are getting fooled with these AI ads thinking it's a veterinarian speaking and it's not really a veterinarian talking. And so I think just being cautious, but then also just again, verifying with your medical provider for your pets, asking your veterinarian, we don't mind talking about this stuff. We like to talk about it. We find humor in it. We like to educate. At the end of the day, our objective as veterinarians is to put information in front of pet owners. We don't really care what you do with it. I mean, we have an opinion. We'd like to see what you

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Do. Sure, of course.

Speaker 5 (27:34):
At the end of the day, it's you. You have to decide what to do with your pet. And our job is to put the information in front of you and then you decide.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
Well, Dr. King, while we have you a 100% real and non-AI veterinarian, let's get some good information out there. And I want to talk a bit about preventive care. So beyond the things like vaccines and going for your routine care, what are just some things you wish more pet parents were proactive about that if they were doing the maintenance and being proactive, it would prevent a more serious problem?

Speaker 5 (28:13):
I think hands down, I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but hands down, the biggest thing that you can do is if we're talking about dogs and cats, is maintaining lean body mass. Of all of the things like supplements and

(28:26):
This and that and whatever, maintaining lean body mass is by far the best thing you can do for your animal. And we're starting to pull some information from humans from the standpoint of metabolic dysfunction and whatnot and obesity and how that affects long-term health. And we see it. And orthopedic disease is an extremely common place that we can influence. And there's been enough studies to suggest that if you maintain lean body mass in a dog, for example, you are more likely to have an extended lifespan, less likely to have arthritis in the major joints like shoulders and hips. And so it's a big thing. It's a big thing maintaining

Speaker 1 (29:09):
Lean body mass. It's a longer life and a better life.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Absolutely. Yeah. And shifting from preventative care and routine type of things like that, when it comes to emergencies, a lot of times pet parents are not sure if it's something that can wait till the next day. How would you advise them? Do you advocate for using telehealth or how do you feel about that?

Speaker 5 (29:37):
I, again, might ruffle some feathers here. I am not a fan of telehealth only from the. It's really, really difficult to be able to. If you were to hold up your dog, the little one that was in there back there talking a second ago, and you're like, "Okay, tell me what's wrong with him. I think that his ear is doing..." Or whatever. It's extremely difficult. And I could tell you maybe,

(29:58):
And I don't even know if I could. Whether or not you're in a life or death situation, in some really extreme scenarios I could, but in other scenarios I may not be able to. And so I think getting a patient in front of a veterinarian is the objective if you're at all confused or questioning. We have a saying, one peak's worth a thousand guesses. If you can see that dog or cat or other type of animal, you can pretty much give somebody an idea as to whether or not it's an emergent situation. But I think we only have a handful of true, true emergent situations in veterinary medicine. So there is a fair amount of triaging that can occur and then therefore not putting the pet's life in danger. And so things like gum color and unresponsiveness and seizures and not urinating for a period, those are all big things like proptost eye.

(30:56):
Those are true emergent situations, but we don't have just a ton of them. Obviously bleeding, so lacerations, car injuries, things like that. But I think even just calling, asking, but the safest thing is to have somebody take a look at them.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Yeah. You know how I feel about telehealth? It's like when my grandma calls me and needs me to get her laptop back on wifi and I have to talk her. You know what I mean? It would be so much easier if I was just there. I could do it in 30 seconds, but instead now it's like, all right, block out the rest of the day. This is going to be. That

Speaker 5 (31:32):
Is a great analogy. I might have to steal that. That is a great

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Analogy. That one's on the house.

Speaker 5 (31:39):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
We're coming up on time, but I want to squeeze one more question because I'm really enjoying this conversation and it's really

Speaker 5 (31:47):
Around - Sorry guys dropped the earbuds.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
Sorry about that. No worries. It's all good. It's all good. I wanted to just ask one more question before we let you go. And it's really about the relationship between a pet parent and veterinarian. I think people like myself, there's a lot of anxious millennials who just really want to do a good job and be a good person. So how would you recommend to build a great relationship with your veterinarian team so that you're comfortable asking questions or pushing for certain kinds of care, how best to listen and react? I mean, it's a complex relationship that I think both people really want to get the most out of. So somebody who's practiced for so long, what's a good pet parent from the vet perspective look like?

Speaker 5 (32:40):
I think you're it. I mean, geez, listening to you talk, you're like everybody's dream client. The fact that you just care and then you're able to verbalize it like, "Hey, listen, I'm in it to win it here. I want to be able to provide the best care. I want to be able to help my family out the best that I can for what my family's able to do. I want to learn. I'm here to be educated." I think those things are really rewarding for the veterinarian. And the veterinarian wants to spend time building relationships with clients because you are the gateway to follow through for the pet, right? I mean, we cannot practice medicine without the owners. And so it becomes really important to start to understand what role does that pet serve in that family? And like I said before, I am here to provide information and be able to help you make the best decisions that you can for your pet and your family.

(33:37):
And so being open about that and being like, "Hey, listen, I'm here to be an advocate for my pet," is extremely rewarding for the veterinarian.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
Fantastic. Chris, you're the ideal client. And Dr. Emily, you are the ideal veterinarian. We've really enjoyed speaking with you today. Thank you for

Speaker 5 (33:56):
Having me.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yeah, your podcast is called the Veterinary Roundtable, so check it out. And where else can we find out what you're up to?

Speaker 5 (34:03):
Oh gosh. I mean, we're on Instagram at Dr. Emily King and TikTok. We're just trying to bring some joy into the industry, make people laugh, but also put out accurate information and just have a general good time. We love the industry and I want people to see that when they partake in our community.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah. Well, we are certainly all kindred spirits then. So thank you for taking some time out of your day, Dr. King. And we look forward to hopefully speaking to you again down the road.

Speaker 5 (34:39):
Sounds good. Thanks guys.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
An A+ guest. A, don't go listen to her podcast because I feel like it's just going to be a better show than ours.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
Oh, don't say that. Don't do

Speaker 1 (34:54):
It. We don't

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Know who

Speaker 1 (34:54):
Guests are.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
I forgot to ask her if her podcast is for veterinarians or for pet parents. Did you pick up on that?

Speaker 1 (35:03):
No, but the vibe I was getting was that it was for pet parents. And that it's like veterinarian round table. They're going to have a bunch of smart people and there's only one smart person on this show.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
I was just going to say, do you think she'll invite us on her show?

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Maybe. Maybe you, probably not me. Well, you never know. I have a feeling we're going to be seeing more of Dr. King in the future.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
No, there's a photo bomb of Tulip. See, if you're watching on video, you see Tulip's little nose.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
A third guest on the Pal podcast. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Right there. Get to see her nose. Oh man.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Rare. All

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Right guys, that was a great interview.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
The product of the week.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
All right. It's time for our product of the week. Well, I just used up all my energy, Kristen. No more peas. You

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Can't use any more peas today.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Can't use any more today. That would be a challenge. Can Chris do an entire odcast without using the letter?

Speaker 2 (36:12):
Oh my

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Gosh. Oh no, we're not going to do that. Maybe a different time. Maybe a different time. Kristin, what's your audict of the week?

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Okay. My audict of the week, I'll play along. I'll play along. Mine is, this is a must have for any pet home. It's a UV flashlight, but it's a black light for pet urine detection. So if your dog or cat has an accident and you didn't see it happen, but you walk into the room and you smell something, but you don't know where it is, you simply point it at the carpet, upholstery or bed. Oops, I used some peas.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, it's over.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
Anyway, at the suspect area and it can even be an old stain. Old hidden pet urine stains will fluoresce under a UV light. So basically you shine the light down and it kind of casts a purple light on the carpet, but you will see a white spot where the potty stain is. And this can be really - Like

Speaker 1 (37:10):
Those crime

Speaker 2 (37:11):
Shows. Like the crime shows, just very CSI-esque. But I do want to point out that these flashlights will also pick up other organic matter. So just because you see a stain doesn't mean it's necessarily from the pet. That's all I'm going to say about that. But it is a really good way to find either old urine stains or ones that you're not sure where they are to get them cleaned up. And they're super inexpensive. You can find them anywhere. This one's on Amazon. It's called the Esco Light Store and it's only 12.99.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
So pick one up. Keep it in. All

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Right.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
What's your product? I

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Am breaking ground here on the PAL Podcast and doing something I've never done before and recommending a horse product. Horses, them things you ride sometimes.

(38:04):
So we have somebody at the Apple office who works part-time and volunteers part-time with horses. So I was asking about some of the stuff that goes into horse care, just saving my curiosity. And one of the questions I had was, do horses get treats? And the answer is yes. And it's usually things like apples and carrots and whole foods, but there is a treat that this person did tell me to check out from Absorbing, but the brand is honest to goodness, which you may have heard of if you're in horse care. And they have these upcycled treats. And now what does upcycling mean? Well, let's read their website. Upcycled Certified is the world's only third party certification program for upcycled food ingredients and products. It's designed to reduce food waste by promoting the upcycling food economy. Upcycled products use ingredients that have full nutritional value and are safe, but for various reasons would have gone to waste.

(39:08):
So they're basically taking from factories like the apple and banana scraps that may be discarded or imperfect, a lot of imperfect ugly fruit that wouldn't be used for human consumption and would've gone to waste. And they're taking all that and it gets turned into these horse biscuits. This company also claimed a second prize showing at Global Pet Expo's Best in Show Awards for the sustainability category. So they are well recognized for this product being incredibly sustainable, good for your horses, packed with nutritional value and came recommended from some folks that I was speaking with. So definitely feel free to check it out. I don't think it's that expensive either. I mean, it's treats. Yeah, $15 a bag. I don't know how many treats horses go through. I really don't. So don't come to me with your horse questions. I just thought it was a good opportunity for me to step out of my comfort zone and do a little learning.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
Absolutely. Q&As.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
All right, Kristen, it's time for our favorite part of the show. That's right. We're going to answer two incredibly important questions from our incredibly intelligent audience. And I know what you're thinking, incredibly intelligent audience. How do I have my questions answered by Chris and Kristen? Well, it couldn't be easier head on overtopetsadlife.org/podcast. Scroll on down to the bottom of that page and you'll see the form to submit your question. Or if you're feeling as brave as the scaredy cat about to give an annoying grooming session to the bigger cat, you can go ahead and record a voice memo and you may hear your question played live on the air. So I've got a question for you, Kristen. I've got it pulled up right in front of me.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
All right.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
From an incredibly intelligent member of the PAL community, Amanda asks, Amanda's from Nashville and asks, "My dog gets extremely jealous whenever I give attention to another pet." He'll actually push his way between us. I've seen this before. "Do dogs really experience jealousy? What's the best way to handle it without making one pet feel left out?

Speaker 2 (41:27):
"That's a good one. Thank you, Amanda, for the question. This reminds sort of similar to the question we had in the last week's show, which was about the dog following. She asked about her dog following her everywhere, but this is more about jealousy. So I think that behaviorists usually call this type of thing a resource guarding response and you are the resource. So typically you probably have a really great bond with your dog. And rather than jealousy, the way we would define it in people, I think your dog isn't worried about fairness. He's just reacting to you, a valuable resource being shared. So I wouldn't punish or deter that behavior, but you also don't want to encourage it. So you want to reward calm behavior near the other pet. So maybe when the other pet comes around, you give both of them treats so that there's a positive association with other pets being around you.

(42:25):
But it doesn't sound like it's really too big of a problem unless your dog becomes aggressive toward the other pet, then that's something you definitely would want to talk to your vet about and maybe take measures to prevent those encounters from happening.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
That's it. I've seen the jealous dog. Yeah, it's

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Not pretty. I

Speaker 1 (42:44):
Think these dogs can be jealous. I'm convinced it's real. I don't know if it is, but I'm convinced.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah. It's the same way where if Tulip could. She does not care about her toy box. She's got a toy box overflowing with stuffy toys. She does not play with them. But if Ben, her cousin comes over and picks a toy out of the toy box, suddenly - It's over. That's my toy. It's the worst thing Ben could have ever done. Exactly. Yep. Okay. All right, Chris, I've got a question from you. This is from Rachel in Columbus, Ohio. She says, "My cat is incredibly affectionate with me, but hides whenever anyone else comes to visit." Is that simply her personality or is there a way to help a shy cat become more comfortable and confident around new people?

Speaker 1 (43:29):
Sure. Yeah. I mean, is it her personality? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of cats who are like that, but hey, scaredy cats, shy little cats. Yeah, there's some things you can do to try and help make them feel more confident in front of strangers. I think that really what you're looking at is just a matter of trust. They trust you, recognize you as part of the pack, part of the pride. People coming into the house, they are outsiders. They're not part of the circle of trust. So first thing I would say is have your visitors mostly ignore the cat. I know I'm the first person to walk into somebody's house and if there's a cat, I'm like, "Oh my God, a cat." Let's instruct our visitors to. Yeah, mostly ignore the cat. If the cat is gross comfortable, it should be approaching on its own terms.

(44:19):
The second is give your cat a stranger danger free room or closet or something corner, a place that it knows it can go to, to retreat. It'll give it more confidence to approach in the first place. And you could always try having some high value treats at the door so that when a visitor comes, they could greet the cat with a high value treat, learn to associate a ringing doorbell with, "Oh, I'm going to get something tasty." Or if that fails, I mean, they make the pheromone products and things like that. Hit or miss, I think that works for some cats more than others, but it's something to give a whirl. Or honestly, there's nothing wrong with your cat. I have friends, I've been to their house hundreds of times. I've seen their cats maybe twice, and that's okay. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with it.

(45:16):
The cat's not broken. It's not anxious. It's living a happy and healthy life, just not when I'm there. So best of luck, and hopefully you and your cat can grow socially together. But that wraps us up for this episode

Speaker 2 (45:39):
Of - End of the show

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Already. I know. We zoomed through them. Hopefully this kept you nice and occupied and entertained either during your commute or while your in-laws were over and you had to put something on the TV just to drown out some of the conversation. We've all been there. We've all been there. And if you aren't already, follow us on all of our social medias @petsadlife on pretty much everything. If we're not there, it's not cool yet.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yeah, it's not. And check out dog TV. We haven't talked about this in a while. Check out dog TV on all their platforms for your dog, even your cat. And this kind of leads me to our tail end tidbit. Dog and cat color vision is dichromatic and it's weighted toward blues and yellows and greens with a much weaker ability for them to see the red end of the spectrum. And dog TV is deliberately produced. The content for dogs that is, is deliberately produced to help dogs see it more vividly. So check it out.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Check it out and we'll see you back here in a week. Bye. Pets Ad Life, your guide to the latest in pet trends, products, and the joy of the human animal bond. With Kristen Levine and me, Chris Bonafati, powered by the American Pet Products Association and Dog TV.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
Pets Ad Life with Kristen Levine and Chris Bonafonte, powered by the American Pet Products Association and Dog TV.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Guess what suckers? We got a special episode for you. Big round of applause for all the winners.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Congratulations, Scott. We are going to show you some of our best, funniest, smartest, greatest guests. Oh, sorry, Chris. Please go ahead.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
You're

Speaker 1 (47:18):
Getting right to what I

Speaker 3 (47:19):
Was - I know

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Excited. I know. I know. I know.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
Beyond the leash, exploring the untold stories of pet passion and professionalism.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
Yeah, go to the vet. Don't ask us. Oh, this is our dog-shaped cat, Birdie. Wow. Is Chris as handsome as he sounds? That'd be an old man doing Pet's Ad Life, so prepare yourself, but. Chef's kiss.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
Listen to Pet's Ad Life with Kristen Levine and Chris Bonafati every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts.